Jim, Thanks for the clarification. I have not kicked the tires on punning. Tony
From: Jim McCusker [mailto:mcc...@rpi.edu] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 10:37 AM To: Lloyd McKenzie; Anthony Mallia Cc: Marc Twagirumukiza; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-...@lists.hl7.org; w3c semweb HCLS Subject: Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback Actually, the impact of punning on reasoners is minimal. There are a set of OWL predicates that assume the resource is a class, everything else assumes it is an individual. Jim On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:11 AM Lloyd McKenzie <ll...@lmckenzie.com<mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com>> wrote: Well, the situation we're in is that there is an official URL for each resource and that's the only place you can be guaranteed to receive either the instance (RDF) or type (OWL). And that will be true for both HL7-defined artifacts as well as those defined by anyone else. Lloyd McKenzie Consultant, Information Technology Services Gevity Consulting Inc. E: lmcken...@gevityinc.com<mailto:lmcken...@gevityinc.com> M: +1 587-334-1110<tel:1-587-334-1110> W: gevityinc.com<http://gevityinc.com/> GEVITY Informatics for a healthier world CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Anthony Mallia <amal...@edmondsci.com<mailto:amal...@edmondsci.com>> wrote: Lloyd – that is called a pun and is possible in that the same IRI for both an individual and a class. The impact on reasoners may be complex. Tony From: Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com<mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com>] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 9:06 AM To: Anthony Mallia Cc: Marc Twagirumukiza; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>; w3c semweb HCLS Subject: Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback Hi Tony, I thought it was possible to have both instance definitions and class definitions at the same IRI? Lloyd McKenzie Consultant, Information Technology Services Gevity Consulting Inc. E: lmcken...@gevityinc.com<mailto:lmcken...@gevityinc.com> M: +1 587-334-1110<tel:1-587-334-1110> W: gevityinc.com<http://gevityinc.com/> GEVITY Informatics for a healthier world CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Anthony Mallia <amal...@edmondsci.com<mailto:amal...@edmondsci.com>> wrote: Lloyd, I think the thread has mutated from the prefix discussion which seems to be closed to the IRI discussion which needs a lot more thought. In RDF the IRI points to the RDF individual or entity that is being referenced not its FHIR structural definition. However the FHIR URIs should give us identity uniqueness. If we were to get distributed RDF Ontology support where the IRI’s might be network dereferenceable we would have a conflict. Tony From: Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com<mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com>] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:46 AM To: Marc Twagirumukiza Cc: Anthony Mallia; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>; w3c semweb HCLS Subject: Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback The URIs are already defined. We use a base of ..../fhir/ for code systems and ..../fhir/vs/ for value sets. And it's entirely possible to have both reactionSeverity and conditionSeverity and numerous other orthogonal severity value sets. This discussion is purely about what prefixes we define for our "standard" representation created by automatic transformation of XML or JSON to RDF. And my leaning is to define only one - "fhir" = "http://hl7.org/fhir/";. In terms of consuming source data, we would be able to consume RDF regardless of what prefixes it chose to declare, but we wouldn't round-trip any of them. Lloyd McKenzie Consultant, Information Technology Services Gevity Consulting Inc. E: lmcken...@gevityinc.com<mailto:lmcken...@gevityinc.com> M: +1 587-334-1110<tel:1-587-334-1110> W: gevityinc.com<http://gevityinc.com/> GEVITY Informatics for a healthier world CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Marc Twagirumukiza <marc.twagirumuk...@agfa.com<mailto:marc.twagirumuk...@agfa.com>> wrote: Tony, +1 to declare http://hl7.org/fhir/ as FHIR: For IRI: I would use "http://hl7.org/fhir/severity/<http://hl7.org/fhir/>" rather than http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity To disambiguate from a ValueSet to another will be done with the pattern model. Otherwise we may end up with multiple http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity , http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/conditionSeverity<http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity> , etc. Kind Regards, Marc ________________________________ Click on link to read important disclaimer: http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer From: Anthony Mallia <amal...@edmondsci.com<mailto:amal...@edmondsci.com>> To: Lloyd McKenzie <ll...@lmckenzie.com<mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com>> Cc: Marc Twagirumukiza/AXPZC/AGFA@AGFA, David Booth <da...@dbooth.org<mailto:da...@dbooth.org>>, HL7 ITS <i...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:i...@lists.hl7.org>>, "owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>" <owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>>, w3c semweb HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org<mailto:public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>> Date: 05/03/2015 19:14 Subject: RE: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback ________________________________ Lloyd, I agree. The use of prefix is a presentation issue and does not change the behavior of reasoners etc. If a user wants to add prefixes it can be done locally based on the IRI structure which is what we need to focus on. However we do want to use the dereferenceable URIs that FHIR designates so we can get at the semantic definition if needed. So a proposed position will be to declare http://hl7.org/fhir/ as FHIR: but the dereferenceable URI probably has http://hl7.org/fhir/structuredefinition/ so we should use this maybe in an annotation not the name IRI. I was just working on reactionSeverity ValueSet which would have an IRI of http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity and its display will be determined by rdfs:label value derived from ValueSet.name. Tony From: Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com] Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 12:25 PM To: Anthony Mallia Cc: Marc Twagirumukiza; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>; w3c semweb HCLS Subject: Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback Hi Tony, I wouldn't treat structure definitions as distinct from any other. The "vs" namespace is just for FHIR-defined valuesets. There will be 100s of value set namespaces out in the real world once more people start profiling, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend giving prefixes to any of them. They don't mean anything special. Lloyd McKenzie Consultant, Information Technology Services Gevity Consulting Inc. E: lmcken...@gevityinc.com<mailto:lmcken...@gevityinc.com> M: +1 587-334-1110<tel:1-587-334-1110> W: gevityinc.com<http://gevityinc.com/> GEVITY Informatics for a healthier world CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Anthony Mallia <amal...@edmondsci.com<mailto:amal...@edmondsci.com>> wrote: Marc, There is probably some right balance between having the prefix state the namespace or to have the dot notation as in FHIR. However there are some base FHIR URIs which might deserve prefixes: http://hl7.org/fhir/structuredefinition/ (when the FHIR website moves there) http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/ which supports the valuesets There may be more in FHIR that I have not yet discovered and Lloyd will know what they are. Regards, Tony From: Marc Twagirumukiza [mailto:marc.twagirumuk...@agfa.com<mailto:marc.twagirumuk...@agfa.com>] Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 3:42 AM To: Lloyd McKenzie Cc: David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org>; w3c semweb HCLS Subject: Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback I fully support having a single "fhir" prefix. This will help at 'FHIR ontology' development level with making reusable predicates. Also at instance level it would help to include something that identifies order for array elements Kind Regards, Marc Twagirumukiza | Agfa HealthCare Senior Clinical Researcher | HE/Advanced Clinical Applications Research T +32 3444 8188 | M +32 499 713 300 http://www.agfahealthcare.com<http://www.agfahealthcare.com/> http://blog.agfahealthcare.com<http://blog.agfahealthcare.com/> ________________________________ Click on link to read important disclaimer: http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer From: Lloyd McKenzie <ll...@lmckenzie.com<mailto:ll...@lmckenzie.com>> To: David Booth <da...@dbooth.org<mailto:da...@dbooth.org>> Cc: w3c semweb HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org<mailto:public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>>, HL7 ITS <i...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:i...@lists.hl7.org>> Date: 04/03/2015 19:33 Subject: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback Sent by: owner-...@lists.hl7.org<mailto:owner-...@lists.hl7.org> ________________________________ Several comments: 1. I'm not clear on the benefit of defining prefixes for every resource and type. The alternative is a single "fhir" prefix 2. We need to include something in the instances that identifies order for array elements 3. Do we need to declare type everywhere? Quite often, the type can be inferred from the context and the property name by consulting the resource/data type definition ontology. Explicitly listing types everywhere adds verbosity to the instances and also adds complexity to the conversion process 4. Not sure why we have nodes underneath "div". Can't we just have "div" be of type string for our purposes? Additional things to add to our example: - a nested structure (e.g. DiagnosticReport.image) - a reference to an external resource (outside the bundle) and reference to something within the bundle (local, full reference-version independent, full reference-version dependent) - a codeable concept with multiple codings - a coding with version declared - a coding with valueset declared - a coding with code but no system - an instance of identifier - an "id" attribute on an element - a reference to the same id attribute (likely from an extension) - an extension with a simple type - an extension with a complex type - an extension that repeats and has multiple values - an element that is an instance a choice (element name is something[x]) - a reference to Questionnaire or one of the other resources that has recursion. Could just be added to the bundle Lloyd McKenzie Consultant, Information Technology Services Gevity Consulting Inc. E: lmcken...@gevityinc.com<mailto:lmcken...@gevityinc.com> M: +1 587-334-1110<tel:1-587-334-1110> W: gevityinc.com<http://gevityinc.com/> GEVITY Informatics for a healthier world CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:05 PM, <da...@dbooth.org<mailto:da...@dbooth.org>> wrote: David Booth <da...@dbooth.org<mailto:da...@dbooth.org>> has invited you to HL7/W3C FHIR RDF & Validation/Translation Task Force *********************************************************************************** Manage subscriptions - http://www.HL7.org/listservice<http://www.hl7.org/listservice> View archives - http://lists.HL7.org/read/?forum=its<http://lists.hl7.org/read/?forum=its> Unsubscribe - http://www.HL7.org/tools/unsubscribe.cfm?email=ll...@lmckenzie.com&list=its<http://www.hl7.org/tools/unsubscribe.cfm?email=ll...@lmckenzie.com&list=its> Terms of use - http://www.HL7.org/myhl7/managelistservs.cfm?ref=nav#listrules<http://www.hl7.org/myhl7/managelistservs.cfm?ref=nav#listrules> *********************************************************************************** Manage your subscriptions<http://www.hl7.org/listservice> | View the archives<http://lists.hl7.org/read/?forum=its> | Unsubscribe<http://www.hl7.org/tools/unsubscribe.cfm?email=marc.twagirumuk...@agfa.com&list=its> | Terms of use<http://www.hl7.org/myhl7/managelistservs.cfm?ref=nav#listrules>
