Hi, WebAPI fans-
The minutes for the DOM3 Events telcon on 16 April 2008 can be found here:
http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html
Or as text below:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web API WG Teleconference
16 Apr 2008
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-irc
Attendees
Present
[Microsoft], Doug, aemmons, Carmelo
Regrets
Chair
Doug
Scribe
Travis
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]event iterator proposal
2. [5]wiki access
3. [6]key events and key identifiers
* [7]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2008
<shepazu> [8]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps
[8] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps
<Travis> script: Travis
<Travis> scribe: Travis
<scribe> scribeNick: IRC Travis
<Travis> AE: Meeting has started
<Travis> ... planning next meeting.
<Travis> shepazu: Carmelo have you started testing keyboard related
stuff?
<Travis> Carmelo: have made keycode/charcode progress...
<Travis> aemmons: Let's chat about event iterator discussion from
the list
<Travis> ... much of discussion was around use-cases...
event iterator proposal
<shepazu> mjs, are you interested in discussing event iterator?
<mjs> shepazu: I don't have much to add besides what I said already,
and wanting to hear the use cases that justify it
<shepazu> mjs, ok
<mjs> those use cases would be better presented in email, but I'd be
happy to hear them by phone too
<aemmons>
[9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.ht
ml
[9]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.html
<shepazu>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.h
tml
[10]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.html
<mjs> shepazu: so please let me know if I can contribute anything
useful, and I'll gladly call in for that topic
<shepazu> ok, thanks
<Travis> aemmons: previous proposal for hasEventListener
<Travis> shepazu: less usefull in my opinion
<Travis> aemmons: mjs wants to really discuss if we need it at all
(use-case analysis)
<Travis> shepazu: I find strong case for this iterator--others don't
seem to think so.
<Travis> shepazu: It's potentially problematic for some UA's because
the use the API internally for adding listeners...
<Travis> ... we could just get DOM events out and then add the
iterator later (in its own spec)
<Travis> ... don't want to delay DOM3 Events for this. Rather settle
on keyevents, etc. and publish this spec...
<Travis> .... unless can resolve iterator open issue quickly.
<Travis> Travis: I agree generally with what is said about not
delaying...
<Travis> ... unexpected resistence.
<Travis> shepazu: App internal use, seems easy to hide events...
<Travis> ... for extensions in FF, may be more complicated
<Travis> Travis: the page may not want to see stuff added by
extensions.
<Travis> shepazu: Rather UI doesn't want to expose that to whomever
controls the page.
<Travis> Travis: possible security/privacy issue for scripted
extensions. Maybe a profiling problem.
<Travis> shepazu: problem could also exist for a framework/mashup.
<Travis> Travis: frameworks want to control enumeration
<Travis> Travis: Almost requires the addEventListener api to specify
whether an event should be enumerated.
<Travis> shepazu: It complicates scenarios.
<Travis> ... Travis, please gather use-cases, reqs., etc., to
continue to drive conversation.
<Travis> ... continue out of context of DOM3 Events (so as to not
block progress).
<Travis> Travis: I think that's fine.
<Travis> aemmons: It makes a lot of sense to identify the use cases.
<Travis> shepazu: anyone opposed to this?
<Travis> Resolution: Don't add event iterators in DOM3 Events,
continue research for a later spec
<Travis> Rationale: Don't want to delay DOM3 Events.
<Travis> Travis: mjs what do you think of this?
<shepazu> mjs, are you fine with this resolution?
<mjs> I am fine with not including it for now
<mjs> I do think we should still add it later if there is a use case
<Travis> Travis: addEventListener('click', fCallback, false, 'don't
enumerate'); :)
<shepazu> for future reference
wiki access
<Travis> shepazu: Proceedure to get wiki access
<Travis> ... 1- make an account.
<Travis> ... 2 - tell shepazu
<Travis> ... 3 - he will grant access if the stars align
<shepazu> [11]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Main_Page
[11] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Main_Page
key events and key identifiers
<shepazu> [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_Identifiers
[12] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_Identifiers
<Travis> shepazu: I added those 2 things for review
<Travis> ... that link defines key identifiers (by Cameron)
<Travis> shepazu: I think we should add this to the spec
<shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps
[13] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps
<Travis> shepazu: we need to send mail to folks to see if this is a
reasonable approach
<Travis> ... scraps from my local edit of the DOM3 events spec.
Opens some issues/ expanded key identifiers section.
<Travis> ... includes 8-direction arrow keys (up-left, etc.)
<Travis> ... will ultimately have a table that includes Unicode map
to actual character (U+XXX to "!")
<Travis> ... as well as a table that maps charcode and keycode
<Travis> ... added soft keys soft1..soft4
<Travis> ... zoom key
<Travis> ... (may not be in original list)
<Travis> ... folks should go through the list and provide
feedback--agree/disagree, and what's missing.
<Travis> ... Think about mobile, alternate keyboards, etc. so that
we can have a comprehensive list.
<Travis> shepazu: There's a unicode value for the space key, but
it's not a named key.
<Travis> ... might be interesting to add that. (There's an 'enter'
key after all...)
<Travis> ... I'll post the issues defined in that scraps doc.
<Travis> shepazu: What stuff do browsers test for event-related
stuff. And record that data on the wiki
<Travis> Travis: Do you want test cases?
<Travis> shepazu: No, just tables of info (results)
<shepazu> for keycode and charcode
<shepazu>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/KeyCode_and_charCode
[14] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/KeyCode_and_charCode
<Travis> shepazu: Let's devide and conquer
<Travis> shepazu: Test that page on different OS/Browser
combinations. OSX, Windows, etc.
<Travis> ... each person can independently report results to find
issues...
<Travis> aemmons: For english keyboards?
<Travis> shepazu: Let's ask others (don't know who) with non-english
keyboards to test.
<Travis> Carmelo: should this go right to the wiki?
<Travis> shepazu: Either results in an HTML page...
<Travis> ... well, you can send it to me, but I'd like it all on the
wiki eventually
<shepazu>
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Nov/att-0047
/keyCode-ie.htm
[15]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Nov/att-0047/keyCode-ie.htm
<Travis> Carmelo: In one page or multiple pages?
<Travis> shepazu: Anne did some tests and reported the link above.
<Travis> ... those are all for IE.
<Travis> .... We don't have a specific format
<Travis> ... There are some differences as IE doesn't have charCode.
<Travis> ... When I get back I'd like to have a good compilation
that we can review.
<Travis> ... Then when I get back, we can integrate the different
results into one table, and map that to key identifiers.
<Travis> aemmons: Better to get the individual results in email and
then merge later.
<Travis> shepazu: What Anne has in the previous link is a good
framework.
<Travis> ... (groups keys by ranges for succinctness)
<Travis> ... let's be thorough, though it might be a bit boring.
<Travis> shepazu: aemmons will you coordinate this?
<Travis> aemmons: yes.
<Travis> ACTION: aemmons to coordinate charcode/keycode testing on
multiple OS and browsers [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-275 - Coordinate charcode/keycode testing
on multiple OS and browsers [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-04-23].
<Travis> shepazu: That's all that I had for this telecon.
<Travis> ... anyone have other topics to discuss?
<Travis> aemmons: Are we all set for mousewheel?
<Travis> shepazu: I'll try to get to that soon (hopefully next
week).
<Travis> ... other issues?
<Travis> Travis: Still have some outstanding actions...
<Travis> shepazu: Reminder, I'll be out of office for a few weeks...
<Travis> ... I'll be back 4 weeks from now.
<Travis> ... should have email access.
<Travis> ... Please have testing done by the time I get back.
<Travis> shepazu: I think we could be in last call in about a month
and a half.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: aemmons to coordinate charcode/keycode testing on
multiple OS and browsers [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.133
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$Date: 2008/04/16 19:32:53 $
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[18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/mjs: ok/mjs, ok/
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ScribeNicks: IRC Travis, Travis
Default Present: [Microsoft], Doug, aemmons, Carmelo
Present: [Microsoft] Doug aemmons Carmelo
Found Date: 16 Apr 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.h
tml
People with action items: aemmons
[21] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html
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