Kirk,

I think we already address the issue you raise in our existing bylaws.  We 
allow two different alternative qualifications for a CA member:

1) Root CA: WebTrust or ETSI audit and "actively issues certificates to 
subordinate CAs that, in turn, actively issue certificates to Web servers that 
are openly accessible from the Internet using a browser created by a Browser 
member”

2) Issuing CA: WebTrust or ETSI audit and "actively issues certificates to Web 
servers that are openly accessible from the Internet using a browser created by 
a Browser member”

Anyone who (a) has a period of time audit report and (b) has a CA that is 
either included in a Browser trust store or is cross-signed by a CA that is a 
root CA or issuing CA would appear to be eligible for membership today.

Thanks,
Peter

> On Apr 11, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Kirk Hall via Public <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> No – more like the situation with the root that Google bought from 
> GlobalSign, but leaving an issuing subroot with GlobalSign for it to use.  
> (If I understand the situation correctly.)  I don’t think that involved 
> Delegated Third Parties – there are two independent CAs operating under one 
> trusted root with multiple issuing subroots controlled by two different 
> companies.
>  
> I’m pretty sure there have been other situations where a new CA got a 
> branded, issuing subroot from another CA, sometimes for a limited time while 
> the new CA generated its own roots and submitted them to the browsers – but I 
> can’t remember exact details.
>  
> Bear in mind we are ONLY talking about CABF membership rules under our 
> Bylaws, not the BRs or issues such as audit rules, RAS/DTPs etc.  So let’s 
> keep it simple.  I think we should encourage the widest possible membership 
> as a way of increasing communication and participating by CAs.  If two CA 
> members are "affiliated", then our Bylaws limit them to one vote, but 
> otherwise the two CAs can continue to participate as members.
>  
> Today our membership rules are silent on owning/controlling roots and 
> subroots, so a CA that only has the right to use a subroot from another CAs 
> root qualifies for Forum membership (so long as that CA is issuing certs and 
> has the necessary audit).
>  
> Gerv – as you recall, we don’t have a definition of “affiliate” in the Bylaws 
> – maybe your ballot should add a definition taken from our IPR Policy 
> agreement.
>  
> From: Ryan Sleevi [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 4:13 PM
> To: Kirk Hall <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] [EXTERNAL] Bylaw interpretation: root store membership 
> required?
>  
> There are specific terms in the Baseline Requirements that describe various 
> relationships, and I'm not sure how to map what you describe on to them. It 
> appears to be related to the Delegated Third Party discussion, and you're 
> suggesting Delegated Third Parties - even if nominally called CAs - should 
> not be able to vote/participate. Is that correct?
>  
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Kirk Hall <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Renting was a short hand way of saying some members may not own a trusted 
> root.  They may have the contractual right to use an issuing subroot of a 
> trusted root owned by another CA – whether they are hosting the issuing 
> subroot themselves or the issuing subroot is hosted for them by the CA that 
> owns the root, or by others. 
>  
> Whether or not they “own” the issuing subroot, or just have a limited ability 
> to use the subroot for a limited time (hence, “rent”) may vary from case to 
> case.
>  
> That’s the language we need to work on if we want to amend the Bylaws on 
> qualifications for CA members.
>  
> From: Ryan Sleevi [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:38 AM
> To: CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Cc: Kirk Hall <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [cabfpub] [EXTERNAL] Bylaw interpretation: root store membership 
> required?
>  
> Can you describe what "renting" a root entails? How is it objectively 
> quantified as distinct from "own or control"?
>  
> I would presume, for example, that anyone "renting" a root (the first time I 
> have heard of such claim) would be able to demonstrate "control" for the 
> duration of the rental, much as I would be able to demonstrate control of a 
> vehicle that I was renting and driving.
>  
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