Tim, >From your message, I'm not sure if you're offering to coordinate such a group and are looking for volunteers, or just pointing out the way forward? If you're looking for volunteers, count me in.
- Wayne On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM Tim Hollebeek via Public < [email protected]> wrote: > The relevant question at this point is who would participate in and > contribute to an effort to review the Bylaws line by line, and determine > whether the provision applies to the Forum as a whole, Chartered Working > Groups, and/or Subcommittees, and whether the provision can be overridden > by a lower level group. > > > > The effort would also provide default provisions for Chartered Working > Groups, for the case that the provision is applicable to the Chartered > Working Group (and, by implication, its Subcommittees) but absent from the > group’s Charter. > > > > Having a small group come up with a draft proposal after a detailed review > is probably the fastest way forward. > > > > -Tim > > > > *From:* Public <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Sleevi > via Public > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:55 AM > *To:* Kirk Hall <[email protected]> > *Cc:* CABFPub <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [cabfpub] Proposed Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1(f) - Default > procedures for new Chartered Working Groups > > > > Kirk, > > > > I'm afraid that wasn't my question, nor was it a suggestion. > > > > It sounds like you haven't done what was discussed - an evaluation of the > bylaws. I'm hoping you can make a more compelling case that these will > address the issues. One way to make such a compelling case is to highlight > "The Bylaws require CWGs specify how to address X, Y, Z in their charters. > Here are samples we can use to address Y and Z in a generic way". This was > the path discussed as a positive step forward, and it does not appear this > does it. > > > > For example, your proposal is clearly deficient and fails to address what > was discussed - such as how the formation of subcommittees is done, which > the Bylaws call for in 5.3.1(e). This is the problem with rushing to > provide language, and ignoring the discussions on possible paths forward - > it easily leads to avoidable mistakes. > > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:50 AM Kirk Hall <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Good point. We can modify my language so the default provisions in my > proposal below would apply to new CWGs **and all subcommittees created by > a CWG*”. How does that sound to you? > > > > Do you have any other edits to suggest? > > > > *From:* Ryan Sleevi [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:46 PM > *To:* Kirk Hall <[email protected]>; CABFPub < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Proposed Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1(f) - > Default procedures for new Chartered Working Groups > > > > > > Thanks for proposing this. > > > > It does not seem to address some of the other topics that were discussed, > such as the formation of subcommittees. > > > > We left the discussion with a call to provide a methodical analysis of > where the bylaws defer to a CWGs charter, to provide better example > guidance. Have you done this? It might be better to start from there, > rather than proposing ballot text immediately following such discussions, > so that we can actually have confidence that the issues are being addressed. > > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:43 AM Kirk Hall via Public <[email protected]> > wrote: > > As we discussed this morning, we need certain “default” procedures for how > *new* Working Groups operate, which could (in theory) be specifically > overridden by the Forum by passing *different* procedures for a particular > CWG in the charter of a new Chartered Working Group (CWG). > > > > It is unlikely that we would ever override these standard Bylaws > provisions for an individual CWG charter, but it would be possible. > > > > A CWG could *also* adopt *additional* procedures for its CWG by a CWG > ballot if it wants to, so long as the additional procedures do not conflict > with the CWG charter and/or Bylaw Sec. 5.3.1(f). > > > > So this is a potential Forum ballot to amend the Bylaws – please comment: > > > > > > *Bylaws Sec. 5.3.1 - Formation of Chartered Working Groups **** > > > > *(f) **Unless otherwise specifically provided in the charter of a CWG, a > CWG shall be governed by the following rules:* > > > > 1. *Each CWG shall have a Chair and Vice Chair who shall be elected > by CWG members following the procedures of Bylaws Section 4.1 as closely as > possible. The initial term for CWG officers shall expire on November 30 of > the next even-numbered year after the CWG is established to be synchronized > with the terms of Forum officers.* > > > > 2. *Proposing and voting on CWG Ballots by CWG members shall follow > the procedures stated in Bylaws Sec. 2.3 and 2.4*. > > > > * * * * * > > > > [*Note*: Bylaws Sec. 5.2 *already* requires CWGs to post Agendas, > Minutes, and Ballots to the Public lists – see below - so I don’t think we > need more default provisions on those subjects. LWG means Legacy Working > Group, and all Legacy Working Groups have expired.] > > > Bylaws Sec. 5.2 - Public Mail List and Public Web Site [Existing language] > > > > The Chair shall appoint a List Manager who shall maintain a Public Mail > List. Members and Interested Parties may post to the Public Mail List in > compliance with these Bylaws. Anyone else is allowed to subscribe to and > receive messages posted to the Public Mail List, which may be crawled and > indexed by Internet search engines. > > > > The Chair shall appoint a Webmaster. The Webmaster shall post instructions > on the Public Web Site for subscribing to the Public Mail List. > > > > The following materials shall be posted to the Public Mail List or Public > Web Site: > > > > (a) Draft and final agendas for LWG and *CWG* meetings, Forum Meetings > and Forum Teleconferences (including any sub-groups or committees). > > (b) Final minutes of Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences > (including minutes of any sub- groups or committees), and minutes of all > LWG and *CWG* teleconferences and meetings. > > (c) Messages formally proposing a Forum ballot (including ballots to > establish, extend, modify, or terminate LWGs (as applicable) and *CWGs*), > individual votes, vote and quorum counts, and messages announcing ballot > outcomes and voting breakdowns. > > (d) Initial and final drafts of Forum requirements, guidelines, and > recommendations after the drafter has had an opportunity to receive and > respond to initial Member comments. > > (e) Initial and final drafts of *CWG* charter documents, guidelines, > and recommendations after the drafter has had an opportunity to receive and > respond to initial Working Group member comments. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > [email protected] > https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public > > _______________________________________________ > Public mailing list > [email protected] > https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public >
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