Forgive me for top-posting cherry-picked responses. I wanted to reply to each of you without hitting the list with 3 emails. Thanks again for the great feedback and support. I can't wait to get it all shipped.
On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jason Slagle <raist...@tacorp.net> wrote: > > > On 10/16/2013 12:07 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > - operating_system : OSes your module supports stated like the >> $operatingsystem Facter values Ubuntu or RedHat >> > > How does this plan to deal with all of the RedHat flavors? If the module > author doesn't list out RedHat, CentOS, OEL, Scientific, etc, will it work? > > Might osfamily be better here? (With the caveat that Fedora should > probably be it's own osfamily and not redhat). Hi Jason, I've truly gone back and forth on this one. Being as granular as $operatingsystem can be incredibly verbose as you've indicated. On the other hand, if the metadata is as broad as $osfamily and you simply say RedHat, you could hit situations where users of Amazon Linux expect a functional module and run into breakage. So the idea here is to provide the more flexible option to module authors and set the expectation that you need to be verbose about each operating system you support. The documentation will provide a list of common values and point to examples. I'd like to avoid using two keys to express the same thing and wanted to err on treating this metadata as a tested promise instead of a general catch-all that is probably tested on just a few platforms in the osfamily. Do you think it's worth the additional initial effort? Thanks for your feedback. On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Dolf Schimmel - Freeaqingme < d...@dolfschimmel.nl> wrote: > Hi Ryan, > > Thanks for the update. The improvements that are coming sound awesome! (I > was in fact about to begin a thread to discuss this issue - glad to see > you're way ahead of me). > > Some insight into how I currently experience the Puppet forge (you may be > aware of it all, yet anyway): > > <snip> Thanks for all the feedback Dolf. I'm with you on each of those points. We're a small team and though we'd like to address each of them tomorrow, we'll get to each as we can. > - There's currently no support for optional dependencies. Many of the > Example42 modules ( https://github.com/example42?tab=repositories ) can > integrate with example42/firewall and example42/monitoring, but you're in > no way obliged to use this integration. It would be nice if these could be > listed as optional dependencies. > I'll reply to both you and Al here. Thank you both. Evolving the metadata format in the way we're planning opens the door to exactly these kinds of features. Though we're kicking this off with expressions of Puppet and Operating System compatibility, I think the next logical step is to allow for optional dependencies and obsoleting a module. Both will require new module metadata. Unfortunately they'll also require an update to the Puppet Module Tool to take advantage of the new metadata. We're about to spin up plans for a new major version of the module tool which will allow for things like this and we're also planning to make updating the module tool more flexible so that we're no longer in a situation where you must upgrade Puppet on your masters in order to get new module tool features. I'll send out a similar note soon to get a larger discussion going on what you'd like to see there. > > Because of the reasons above I don't use the module tool myself. I'm sorry > if I have misunderstood any functionality or suggested that some isn't > available while it actually is - I'm just not aware of it (nor can I find > it). > > Lastly, I can't stress enough to take a look at Composer (tool: > http://getcomposer.org/ & forge: https://packagist.org/ ). Although it's > based around PHP, I'm fairly certain they face(d) the exact same challenges > as there are with the Puppet Module tool. It would be a shame if you'd > reinvent the wheel here. > > I hadn't seen these tools before. Thank you, I'll check them out. On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Ryan Coleman <r...@puppetlabs.com> wrote: > We've been working hard to reduce the complexity involved in publishing > modules to the Forge and make it simpler to find great modules. I'm writing > today to give you some background on the problems we're working to solve > and the approach we'd like to take to help solve them. > > To publish a Forge module today, you must provide some metadata in a form > on forge.puppetlabs.com and create a file named Modulefile in your module > root which contains additional (and in some cases duplicate) metadata. Then > you must run `puppet module build` or follow a workflow in Geppetto which > both transform the Modulefile into the metadata.json artifact that Puppet > and the Forge consume. > > On top of that, the types of metadata you can enter into the Modulefile is > static and requires an update to Puppet to improve. You've been waiting for > a way to find modules that work with your version of Puppet and on the > operating systems you run in your datacenter. The Forge is ready to display > this information, allow you to filter search results on it and more. The > last step is to allow for additional metadata to be supplied by module > authors in a single, simple, source of metadata. > > > So, what are we planning to simplify module publishing and enable better > module discovery on Forge? > > - The web form on Forge currently required to publish a new module is > going away. > - The Modulefile metadata file will be deprecated in the next major > release of Puppet > - metadata.json (part of the `puppet module build` output) will become the > single-source of metadata > - > http://docs.puppetlabs.com/puppet/latest/reference/modules_publishing.htmlwill > be updated to reflect these changes and to document brand new metadata > keys including: > - puppet_version : The major.minor versions of Puppet your module > supports like 2.7 or 3.3 > - operating_system : OSes your module supports stated like the > $operatingsystem Facter values Ubuntu or RedHat > - This new metadata will be used on forge.puppetlabs.com on module pages, > search results and will be available over its (soon to be released) REST > API. > > There are a couple of notable caveats to the above which will be included > in the documentation along with much greater detail on each metadata key. > For example, we'd like to allow for more flexible expressions in > puppet_version (not just major.minor) and we'd like to allow for version > comparison in operating_system. We plan to introduce these keys as > described above until Forge is ready to accept more complicated > expressions. Once able, we'll update the documentation to document the new > capabilities and accept both forms of metadata. > > > > Will this break all my modules and when can I start using this stuff? > > We know that these changes aren't trivial and even though Puppet and the > Forge use metadata.json already, some tools interact with Modulefile > directly. We're doing several things to make this transition seamless and > pleasant. > > First, rest easy knowing that the modules you build with the module tool > available in 2.7.14 and later will continue to work. Though you won't be > able to express the new metadata or publish to the Forge without visiting > the website, older versions of Puppet and Geppetto will continue to create > and interact with modules just the same. > > Users of Puppet 3.3.0 and later will enjoy extra flexibility during this > transition. It includes a change to respect the new metadata fields > expressed in metadata.json when building your release tarball based on the > metadata entered in Modulefile. Though you won't be living the single > source of metadata dream, you can still express new metadata with few > manual steps. > > The next major version of Puppet will include a greatly revamped Puppet > Module Tool that (amongst other improvements) will make it easy to express > and validate the new metadata directly in metadata.json. A future release > of Geppetto will be the easiest choice when it provides a simple form > editor to express, edit and validate the new metadata. > > The updated documentation which should be available within the next month. > It will also describe these changes in greater detail and provide all the > information you need to get started. > > Best of all, once module authors begin publishing new releases which > contain the new metadata keys, you'll be able to filter your Forge search > results on the Puppet versions and operating systems that you care about. > Three sources of module metadata will be reduced to one authoritative > source that doesn't require an upgrade of your entire Puppet infrastructure > to improve. Publishing modules to the Forge will no longer require web-site > interaction enabling vastly improved workflows like GitHub-based publishing > that we hope to work on in the coming months. > > On behalf of all of us at Puppet Labs, I want to thank you for being such > an awesome community and I'm looking forward to the next year of module > development. You're always welcome to email me directly or find me as > ryanycoleman in #puppet on Freenode. There are many more things coming from > us in the next few months and I look forward to sharing those with you soon. > > > --Ryan > -- Ryan Coleman | Modules & Forge | ryanycoleman on twitter & #puppet IRC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com. 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