Al, Really well put. Thank you for taking the time to share this thoughtful reply, with which I wholeheartedly agree.
N.
On 22/03/2022 04:46, Al Sweigart wrote:
> I didn't want to dominate this thread, so I've held off the last few
> days to give others a chance to reply.
>
> Herve, I assumed that your "why not for Iraq?" question was a deflection
> rather than a sincere question, and your later emails seem to confirm
> that. The pro-Putin side never wants to come out and directly say they
> favor Russia in this conflict, for obvious reasons. Instead they engage
> in whataboutism or "just asking questions" or "now is not the right
> time" etc.
>
> But to answer your "why not for Iraq?" question: because it was quite
> "controversial" to be against the Iraq war. Today, after two decades of
> waste, death, Abu Ghraib, and WMDs that never materialized, it's easy to
> say the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were a mistake. But twenty years
> ago we were calling our potatoes "freedom fries" and the Dixie Chicks
> lost their careers for saying they were ashamed of Bush. I'm sure twenty
> years from now history will show Ukraine to be the just side in this war
> and everyone will claim they supported Ukraine (whether that's true or
> not). But for now, making a statement in support of Ukraine seems to be...
>
> ...well, it seems to be simultaneously easy and of no impact ("what real
> good is a statement of support?") and yet at the same time, so
> controversial that it'll likely not happen if this thread is any
> indicator. And that is why the PSF did not make a statement against the
> Iraq invasion.
>
> I'm against a generic "statement for peace" because it is cowardice; an
> attempt to compromise between the pro-Ukraine and pro-Putin sides and
> appeasing neither. As Desmond Tutu once said, "If you are neutral in
> situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If
> an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are
> neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
>
> The PSF should make a statement supporting Ukraine. To make another
> quote, this one from MLK, "In the end, we will remember not the words of
> our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
>
> -Al
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM Ian Mallett <i...@geometrian.com
> <mailto:i...@geometrian.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As technologists, we hold a great deal of de-facto power, and
> therefore I think it is reasonable, if not morally obligatory, to be
> careful and conscientious, as well as promulgating kindness and
> respect for human life and our world.
>
> Therefore, I do not oppose any "statement for peace" (even besides
> the very one-sided situation with Russia/Ukraine it obviously
> alludes to, I think everyone sane agrees that mechanized mass death
> is generally bad). However, I do feel like a "statement" is nothing
> but virtue-signaling (and rather vacuous virtue-signaling, at that).
>
> If one truly supports peace, hand-wringy futzing about on mailing
> lists will accomplish nothing; the least one could do to make their
> word meaningful is to, for example, contribute to humanitarian
> efforts relieving human suffering in the region. Furthermore, the
> tools of computer science, together with the general privilege
> afforded by the technology jobs I and most of you have, give us
> opportunity to make real positive change beyond this. I hope that
> everyone thinking about ways to help will consider such
> more-meaningful efforts.
>
> I regret I could not comment any of this on Twitter. I have been
> blocked pre-emptively from the account, and actively refused
> explanation as to why.
>
> Ian
>
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