Am 16.12.2010 21:24 schrieb Bruce Wade:
I agree with everything Jeremy says, plus using jQuery instead of
pyjamas gives you 100% control over everything including your HTML.
Maybe it is just a personal bias or because I come from a C/C++
programming world but I can't stand how some technology tries to
automate the UI. For example it wont work for my site considering I
require WebGL.
We recently discussed this over at TurboGears.
The first thing to acknowledge is that there are two different kinds of
RIAs which both have their own right to exist. On the one side,
pimped-up webforms with unobtrusive JavaScript, on the other side
webapps modeled after desktop GUIs which will not function at all
without JavaScript.
After reading the "Magic Ink" article http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/, I
associate the first type of webapp more with what Bret Victor calls
"information software", while the second type of webapp plays in the
realm of "manipulation softare" which is harder to design, but luckily
also less frequently needed and as he says best be avoided - but of
course not always, and I guess you're thinking of such examples, such as
an web-based alternative to Photoshop.
These kinds of webapp will typically take over the whole browser, the
server (which could be Pyramid, too) will just serve up data to the
client e.g. via JSON-RPC, no need for server-side templating etc. You
can develop such beasts with Pyjamas, Sproutcore, Cappuccino, Quooxdoo
etc. The problem is that you become very dependent of these tools and
their widget sets, it may be hard to customize or extend the existing
widgets. For instance, I'm missing grids (like jqgrid) in Sproutcore.
And you will have to do more in JavaScript than in Python - though I
noticed that "JavaScript the good parts" is actually very similar to
Python, and a good JavaScript library can make up for the rest.
I'm a bit sceptical about Pyjamas. On the one hand you can use Python on
the client side, but on the other hand it requires an additional
compilation step during development, and you're always lagging behind
the current development of the GWT and its tools, Python itself (Python
3 support), and new browsers and browser features. I don't think the
Pyjamas community is large enough to manage these huge development and
maintenance tasks, so you will have to engage deeply in the Pyjamas
project and may not have enough time for developing your actual webapp.
Anyway, I'd like to read some ideas and experiences, and how Pyramid can
be used or extended to serve both types of webapps.
-- Christoph
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