Jacob Hallén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 07/12/2005 11:45:48: > onsdagen den 7 december 2005 11.03 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Dear PyPy'ers, > > > > First of all I would like to say that I think PyPy is an amazing project > > and that you have all done a really great job. Also the comments I have on > > the project are not aimed at any people in the project, more just at the > > general direction it appears to be going in. > > > > PyPy is on the edge of something great. A maintainable, powerful, > > flexible, fast interpreter is just what the python community needs. > > However just when it seems that PyPy can start to have some real > > significance in the Python world it seems like these benefits are being > > delayed for more research work which may take a long time. > > > > For instance a way of writing a rpython module that could be compiled to a > > Cpython extension or a PyPy extension would allow people to start using > > PyPy now, and at the same time make faster, powerful extensions for > > CPython while maintaining an upgrade path to PyPy. This would bring PyPy > > to the attention of a lot of people giving more testers/developers. > > > > Also, most people on #pypy seem to ask about using pypy to compile their > > simple python programs to c. Now, this doesn't seem like a great deal of > > work away (better error messages etc), but they are (politely) told that > > this is not what rpython is for. Now if rpython is not for this, why did > > you write PyPy in it? The same arguments could be applied to most programs > > (python is easier to read/maintain/write). I really can't see why > > something as useful as rpthon should remain an implementation detail, and > > again, exposing it would bring great exposure and benefits to the project. > > > > I don't want to come across like a moaner (and indeed, that's why I stop > > writing on #pypy as felt I couldn't be enough of a positive voice), and > > the only reason I'm writing this is because I think so much of the project > > and think it has so much potential. The last thing I want to see is for > > PyPy to become a great implemention with many powerful features, but then > > find that it had missed its time by not being "results driven" enough. The > > world doesn't need another powerful research/university language, it needs > > a great production language and with PyPy I think Python could be that > > language. > > > > Anyway, enough of my ranting. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or > > completely missed the point. I'll go back to being a hopefull lurker > > again! > > Thanks for your input Ben, > > I think you are quite right in everything you say, and there are people among > the Pypy developers who would be very interested in working on making RPython > directly useable. However, we are to a fairly large extent deadline driven. > > The EU financing comes with a large set of promises for what we are going to > do and a fairly strict timeline to go with it. Currently this timeline says > that we are to work on core optimisations, stacklessness and JIT, with the > work to be finished by May 2006. Some people are also to do support for > aspect oriented programming and constraints satisfaction. After May, there > are other things promised until the official end of the EU project in > November 2006. You can see the EU financing as being a fully commercial > customer driven project. The only difference is the the customer hardly ever > changes his mind. > > This means that (almost) everyone currently working on the project is very > busy and doesn't have time to delve into interesting paths. > > Fortunately, we are in contact with a party that is very interested in doing > exactly what you propose to do, and may be ready to pay for getting it done. > However, this would require people not currently doing Pypy development to do > the work. I'm not at liberty to discuss this in detail. I would just like to > mention it so that you can see that there may be a way forward. > > Even though the EU financing is a straight-jacket, we should remember that we > would be nowhere near what we have today without it. > > Best regards > > Jacob Hallén >
Hi Jacob, Thanks for the reply. I understand completely about the EU thing. Both a massive benefit and a minor curse. Just wanted to put my frustrations down in words! I guess it comes from wanting to contribute but having no time to do it at all. Cheers, Ben _______________________________________________ [email protected] http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
