> Let me rephrase it. Where did you look for such a warning and you did > not find it so you assumed it's ok?
> Cheers, > fijal Having a warning on https://bitbucket.org/pypy/jitviewer would be good. On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM, John Camara <john.m.cam...@gmail.com> wrote: > > What makes you think people will even read this warning, let alone > > prioritize it over their immediate desire to make their program run > > faster? > > > (Not that I am objecting to adding the warning, but I think you might be > > fooling yourself if you think it will have any impact) > > > Jean-Paul > > I agree with you and was not being naive and thinking this alone was going to > solve the problem but it does gives us something to point to when we see > someone abusing the jitviewer. > > Maybe, a more effective approach, is not to advertise about the jitviewer to > everyone who has performance issues and only tell those who are experience > programmers who have already done the obvious in fixing any design issues > that had existed in their code. Having inexperience developers use the > normal profiling tools will still help them find the hot spots in their code > and help prevent them from picking up habits that lead them to writing > un-Pythonic code. > > I'm sure we all agree that code with a better design will run faster in pypy > than trying to add optimizations that work only for pypy to help out a poor > design. > > I don't think we want to end up with a lot of Python code that looks like C > code. This is what happens when the inexperience start relying on the > jitviewer. > > For instance take a look at this code [1] and blog [2] which lead me to post > this. This is not the first example I have come across this issue and > unfortunately it appears to be increaseing at an alarming rate. > > I guess I feel we have a responsibility to try to promote good programming > practices when we can. > > [1] - > https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-python/blob/master/msgpack/fallback.py > > [2] - http://blog.affien.com/archives/2013/01/29/msgpack-for-pypy/ > > John > > > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:39 PM, John Camara <john.m.cam...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> I have been noticing a pattern where many who are writing Python code to >> run on PyPy are relying more and more on using the jitviewer to help them >> write faster code. Unfortunately, many of them who do so don't look at >> improving the design of their code as a way to improve the speed at which >> it will run under PyPy but instead start writing obscure Python code that >> happens to run faster under PyPy. >> >> I know that at least with the PyPy core developers they would like to see >> every one just create good clean Python code and that often code that has >> been made into obscure Python was don so to try to optimize it for CPython >> which in many cases causes it to run slower on PyPy than it would run it >> the code just followed typical Python idioms. >> >> I feel that a normal developer should be using tools like cProfiler and >> runsnakerun and cleaning up design issues way before they should even >> consider using jitviewer. >> >> In a recent case where I saw someone using the jitviewer who likely >> doesn't need to use it. At least they don't need to use it considering the >> current design of the code I said the following >> >> "The jitviewer should be mainly used by PyPy core developers and those >> building PyPy VMs. A normal developer writing Python code to run on PyPy >> shouldn’t have a need to use it. They can use it to point out an >> inefficiency that PyPy has to the core developers but it should not be used >> as a way to get you to write Python code in a way that has a better chance >> of being optimized under PyPy except for very rare occasions and even then >> it should only be made by those who follow closely and understand PyPy’s >> development." >> >> >> Do others here share this same opinion and should some warning be added >> to the jitviewer? >> >> John >> > >
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