On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 12:05:06PM +0300, anatoly techtonik wrote: > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Markus Unterwaditzer > <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 02:49:00PM +0300, anatoly techtonik wrote: > >> I know what C in CFFI stands for C way of doing things, so > >> I hope people won't try to defend that position and instead > >> try to think about what if we have to re-engineer ABI access > >> from scratch, for explicit and obvious debug binary interface. > >> > >> > >> CFFI is not useful for Python programmers and here is why. > >> > >> The primary reason is that it requires you to know C. > > > > You're using C if you're calling it from Python. Knowing the language (to > > some > > degree) when using it is inevitable. > > This is the problem that I've tried to describe: > > All standard Python tools for ABI level access require C knowledge. > > >> And knowing C requires you to know about OS architecture. > > > > The PyPy team (especially fijal) has always strongly discouraged from > > porting Python code to C for performance. If you have a good reason to use > > C, > > it is not surprising that you're going to be confronted with the dangers of > > such a language. I am not sure if you're trying to make a point against C or > > CFFI here. > > Against C. As I said, CFFI is good, but not enough to work conveniently with > binary interfaces, and the reason for that is that it is C-centric.
I am not trying to dogmatize anything here, but i don't see a reason why efforts should be made to eliminate that property you're seeing as a problem, and i am not sure it'd be *worth it*. To me, the main usecase of CFFI seems to be embedding existing C libraries, not directly accessing ABIs. > > I support fijal - my position is that rewriting the same code in faster > language > is not a way to solve performance problems. Language as a problem is a > failed smoke test for app architecture. > > > I am also not sure if the rest of your post actually means anything, or if > > it > > is just way above my head. But given that you're throwing around with > > statements like "this is useless", i don't feel compelled or motivated to > > try > > to understand your ramblings. > > Fair point. Thanks for the feedback. Sometimes I feel like I should just stop > wasting my time on ideas, and start eating some pills so that I could better > concentrate on a mindless coding. That's not what i meant. It doesn't matter whether your ideas are good or bad: The way you're formulating your ideas is incredibly insulting to authors of existing solutions. > -- > anatoly t. _______________________________________________ pypy-dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
