On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 1:07 PM Itamar O <itamar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Breaking out the discussion about lazy imports. > It seems somewhat OT in the declarative imports thread. > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:50 AM Barry Warsaw <ba...@python.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Carl, >> >> > On Apr 9, 2022, at 08:25, Carl Meyer <c...@oddbird.net> wrote: >> > >> > Our experience in practice, though, has been that universally lazy >> > imports is somewhat easier to adopt than Strict Modules, and has had a >> > much bigger overall impact on reducing startup time for big CLIs (and >> > a big web server too; as you note it's not as serious an issue for a >> > web server in production, but restart time still does make a >> > difference to dev speed / experience.) >> >> Excellent point about the impact of restarts and development time. >> That’s been an issue for us a bit, but not an overwhelming motivation to >> rewrite in other languages[1]. >> > > Lazy imports had been very significant to both CLI startup time, as > well as service reload time during local development - we have > more details in the docs [1], and a related blog post coming up soon. > > >> >> > Removing slow stuff happening >> > at import time helps, but it'll never match the speed of not doing the >> > import at all! We've seen startup time improvements up to 70% in >> > real-world CLIs just by making imports lazy. We've also opened an >> > issue to discuss the possibility of upstreaming this. [2] >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder/#strict-modules >> > [2] https://bugs.python.org/issue46963 >> >> Post-GH-issues-migration link for the issue: >> https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/91119 >> >> I’ve put some questions and comments there, but I’m also really curious >> about the technical details for your lazy imports. Have you gotten as far >> as thinking about a PR or PEP? >> > > Yes and Yes (at least for the "thinking about" part). > Germán Méndez Bravo (Kronuz) will be drafting a PEP, > and is leading work internally to port this from 3.8 (first > to 3.10, then to the cpython main branch). > We are planning to get started on this during PyCon sprints, > it would be nice to connect in-person with anyone who's > interested in this and happens to be in the sprints too! > I am and I will be. > > >> >> -Barry >> >> [1] Not that there aren’t other reasons folks give for rewriting, such as >> multicore performance, ecosystem alignment (e.g. SREs being more >> comfortable in Go), etc. >> > > Itamar. > > [1] > https://github.com/facebookincubator/cinder/blob/cinder/3.8/CinderDoc/lazy_imports.rst#lazy-imports > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NIXH574H64DXEXNZK6NDOGNZKQQPUDYM/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
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