As someone who is deeply biased towards improving the packaging tool chain and getting people to use it I think that most people will simply use the Stdlib even if a more secure alternative exists. Infact one does exist and I still see almost everyone using the stdlib ssl instead of pyopenssl. At best they have an optional dependency on it which many people who aren't security conscious won't even realize why they should install it.
> On Mar 22, 2014, at 6:53 PM, Ben Darnell <b...@bendarnell.com> wrote: > > I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment behind this PEP, but I have > concerns about the implementation. If we introduce new APIs into the ssl > module then we will see packages and applications that depend on Python > 2.7.7+, just like with the introduction of bool in 2.2.1. This will be a > mess unless adoption of new Python minor versions is swift and consistent. > The PEP says that new features should be testable with feature detection, but > how far does that go? The Python 3 NPN interface is a method of SSLContext, > which didn't exist in 2.7. Do we backport the entire SSLContext interface in > a minor release, or introduce a new NPN interface that is not based on > SSLContext just for older Pythons? > > In my experience most deployments of Python apps have better systems in place > to deal with packages installed from PyPI than new versions of Python itself. > Therefore it might be better to follow the lead of the unittest2 module and > introduce a new ssl2 module that tracks the most recent version of Python's > ssl module. > > My counter-proposal is: > * Introduce a new module 'ssl2' which is essentially a backport of the > current release's ssl module for all old versions of Python that anyone cares > to support. > * Third-party applications and libraries targeting anything but the latest > version of Python are advised to use ssl2 instead of ssl (this might also be > a good opportunity to bless certifi or an equivalent). > * Minor releases of Python are allowed to make any security-related change > that does not change any public interfaces (e.g. linking against a new > version of openssl, or disabling SSLv2) > * New interfaces in security-related modules are allowed only if those new > interfaces are used by other stdlib modules (since stdlib modules are the > only place where ssl2 is off-limits). For example, a backport of > match_hostname could go in if httplib or urllib used it. NPN/ALPN would not > be allowed under this rule since there is no stdlib code that uses them; > third-party SPDY or HTTP/2 code would have to use ssl2 to get this interface. > > In this world, libraries like requests or tornado that want to use advanced > ssl features can simply declare a dependency on ssl2, instead of saying "we > require Python 2.7.7+, 3.2.6+, etc". > > In spite of my reservations about this PEP, I'd still love to see SSL > improvements in 2.7 in any form. I'm currently planning a port for Tornado's > ssl usage from the stdlib ssl module to PyOpenSSL (in order to get SNI and > NPN/ALPN features), and I'd really rather not have to convert to a completely > incompatible interface. > > -Ben > > > > >> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Nick Coghlan <ncogh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I have just posted a proposal to change the way we treat enhancements >> that relate to Python's support for network security enhancements. I >> now see these as categorically different from most other enhancements, >> as they have implications for the evolution of internet security as a >> whole, rather than being limited to affecting the security of >> individual applications written in Python. >> >> It is similar to the previous IDLE policy exception PEP, where we >> decided that cross version consistency of IDLE superseded the general >> policy against backporting enhancements to maintenance branches. >> >> This new PEP proposes a similar exception for network security related >> changes, such that the *capabilities* of all still maintained versions >> should be kept equivalent, with only the *default settings* varying >> across up to date feature releases. The policy is also designed to >> make it easier for us to ratchet up the default security settings in >> future feature releases. >> >> However, it's more complex than the IDLE PEP (since it's more >> invasive), and there are still a few open questions listed. This topic >> involves a complex balance between encouraging and supporting good >> security practices and limiting the risk of failures for users >> upgrading to new maintenance releases, so I'd ask that folks take time >> to read and consider the implications of the full PEP in the broader >> context of today's internet before posting comments on specific >> details, or indicating a preference one way or the other in terms of >> the overall proposal. >> >> Full PEP included inline below, and available in more readable form at >> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0466/ >> >> Regards, >> Nick. >> >> PEP: 466 >> Title: Network Security Enhancement Exception for All Branches >> Version: $Revision$ >> Last-Modified: $Date$ >> Author: Nick Coghlan <ncogh...@gmail.com>, >> Status: Draft >> Type: Informational >> Content-Type: text/x-rst >> Created: 23-Mar-2014 >> Post-History: 23-Mar-2014 >> >> >> Abstract >> ======== >> >> Most CPython tracker issues are classified as errors in behaviour or >> proposed enhancements. Most patches to fix behavioural errors are >> applied to all active maintenance branches. Enhancement patches are >> restricted to the default branch that becomes the next Python version. >> >> This PEP relaxes the latter restriction allowing enhancements to be applied >> to maintenance branches for standard library components that have >> implications for the overall security of the internet. In particular, the >> exception will apply to: >> >> * the ``ssl`` module >> * the ``hashlib`` module >> * the ``hmac`` module >> * the ``sha`` module (Python 2 only) >> * the components of other networking modules that make use of these modules >> * the components of the ``random`` and ``os`` modules that are relevant to >> cryptographic applications >> * the version of OpenSSL bundled with the binary installers >> >> Changes to these modules will still need to undergo normal backwards >> compatibility assessments, but new features will be permitted where >> appropriate, making it easier to implement secure networked software in >> Python, even for software that needs to remain compatible with older feature >> releases of Python. >> >> >> Exemption Policy >> ================ >> >> Under this policy, the following network security related modules are >> granted a blanket exemption to the restriction against adding new features >> in maintenance releases: >> >> * the ``ssl`` module >> * the ``hashlib`` module >> * the ``hmac`` module >> * the ``sha`` module (Python 2 only) >> >> This exemption applies to *all* proposals to backport backwards compatible >> features in these modules to active maintenance branches. This choice is >> made deliberately to ensure that the "feature or fix?" argument isn't simply >> replaced by a "security related or not?" argument. These particular modules >> are inherently security related, and all enhancements to them improve >> Python's capabilities as a platform for development of secure networked >> software. >> >> As part of this policy, permission is also granted to upgrade to newer >> feature releases of OpenSSL when preparing the binary installers >> for new maintenance releases of CPython. >> >> In addition to the above blanket exemption, a conditional exemption is >> granted for these modules that may include some network security related >> features: >> >> * the ``os`` module (primarily ``os.urandom``) >> * the ``random`` module >> * networking related modules that depend on one or more of the network >> security related modules listed above >> >> This more limited exemption for these modules requires that the *specific* >> enhancement being proposed for backporting needs to be justified as being >> network security related. If the enhancement under discussion is designed >> to take advantage of a new feature in one of the network security related >> modules, then that will be taken as implying that the enhancement is >> security related. >> >> >> Backwards Compatibility Considerations >> ====================================== >> >> This PEP does *not* grant any general exemptions to the usual backwards >> compatibility policy for maintenance releases. Instead, it is designed >> to make it easier to provide more "secure by default" behaviour in future >> feature releases, while still limiting the risk of breaking currently >> working software when upgrading to a new maintenance release. >> >> In *all* cases where this policy is applied to backport enhancements to >> maintenance releases, it MUST be possible to write cross-version compatible >> code that operates by "feature detection" (for example, checking for >> particular attributes in the module), without needing to explicitly check >> the Python version. >> >> It is then up to library and framework code to provide an appropriate error >> message or fallback behaviour if a desired feature is found to be missing. >> >> Affected APIs SHOULD be designed to allow library and application code to >> perform the following actions after detecting the presence of a relevant >> network security related feature: >> >> * explicitly opt in to more secure settings (to allow the use of enhanced >> security features in older versions of Python) >> * explicitly opt in to less secure settings (to allow the use of newer Python >> versions in lower security environments) >> * determine the default setting for the feature (this MAY require explicit >> Python version checks to determine the Python feature release, but MUST >> NOT depend on the specific maintenance release) >> >> >> Documentation Requirements >> ========================== >> >> All modules that take advantage of this policy to backport network >> security related enhancements to earlier Python versions MUST include >> a "Security Considerations" section in their documentation. >> >> In addition to any other module specific contents, this section MUST >> enumerate key security enhancements and fixes (with CVE identifiers where >> applicable), and the >> >> >> Evolution of this Policy >> ======================== >> >> The key requirement for a module to be considered for inclusion in this >> policy (whether under a blanket or conditional exemption) is that it must >> have security implications *beyond* the specific application that is written >> in Python and the system that application is running on. Thus the focus on >> network security protocols and related cryptographic infrastructure - Python >> is a popular choice for the development of web services and clients, and >> thus the capabilities of widely used Python versions have implications for >> the security design of other services that may be using newer versions of >> Python or other development languages. >> >> The intent behind this requirement is to minimise any impact that the >> introduction of this policy may have on the stability and compatibility of >> maintenance releases. It would be thoroughly counterproductive if end >> users became as cautious about updating to new Python maintenance releases >> as they are about updating to new feature releases. >> >> >> Motivation and Rationale >> ======================== >> >> This PEP can be seen as a more targeted version of the "faster standard >> library release cycle" proposals discussed in PEP 407 and PEP 413, >> focusing specifically on those areas which have implications beyond the >> Python community. >> >> The creation of this PEP was prompted primarily by the aging SSL support in >> the Python 2 series. As of March 2014, the Python 2.7 SSL module is >> approaching four years of age, and the SSL support in the still popular >> Python 2.6 release had its feature set locked six years ago. >> >> These are simply too old to provide a foundation that can be recommended >> in good conscience for secure networking software that operates over the >> public internet, especially in an era where it is becoming quite clearly >> evident that advanced persistent security threats are even more widespread >> and more indiscriminate in their targeting than had previously been >> understood. >> >> While the use of the system OpenSSL installation addresses many of these >> concerns on Linux platforms, it doesn't address all of them, and in the >> case of the binary installers for Windows and Mac OS X that are published >> on python.org, the version of OpenSSL used is entirely within the control >> of the Python core development team. >> >> With increased popularity comes increased responsibility, and this policy >> is about recognising the fact that Python's popularity and adoption has now >> reached a level where some of our design and policy decisions have >> significant implications beyond the Python development community. >> >> As one example, the Python 2 ``ssl`` module does not support the Server >> Name Identification standard. While it is possible to obtain SNI support >> by using the third party ``requests`` client library, actually doing so >> currently requires using not only ``requests`` and its embedded dependencies, >> but also half a dozen or more additional libraries. The lack of support >> in the Python 2 series thus serves as an impediment to making effective >> use of SNI on servers, as Python 2 clients will frequently fail to handle >> it correctly. >> >> Another more critical example is the lack of SSL hostname matching in the >> Python 2 standard library - it is currently necessary to rely on a third >> party library, such as ``requests`` or ``backports.ssl_match_hostname`` to >> obtain that functionality in Python 2. >> >> The Python 2 series also remains more vulnerable to remote timing attacks >> on security sensitive comparisons than the Python 3 series, as it lacks a >> standard library equivalent to the timing attack resistant >> ``hmac.compare_digest()`` function. While appropriate secure comparison >> functions can be implemented in third party extensions, may users don't >> even consider the problem and use ordinary equality comparisons instead >> - while a standard library solution doesn't automatically fix that problem, >> it *does* make the barrier to resolution much lower once the problem is >> pointed out. >> >> My position on the ongoing transition from Python 2 to Python 3 has long >> been that Python 2 remains a supported platform for the core development >> team, and that commercial support will remain available well after upstream >> maintenance ends. However, in the absence of this network security >> enhancement policy, that position is difficult to justify when it comes to >> software that operates over the public internet. Just as many developers >> consider it too difficult to develop truly secure modern networked software >> in C/C++ (largely due to the challenges associated with manual >> memory management), I consider it too difficult to develop truly secure >> modern networked software using the Python 2 series without introducing this >> network security enhancement policy, as doing so would mean reimplementing >> substantial portions of the standard library as third party modules to gain >> access to the newer underlying network security protocols and mechanisms, >> and then injecting those into the module namespace to override their >> standard library counterparts. >> >> Requiring that latent defects in an application's Unicode correctness be >> addressed in order to migrate to Python 3 is not a reasonable alternative >> recommendation, especially given the likely existence of legacy code that >> lacks the kind of automated regression test suite needed to help support >> a migration from Python 2 to Python 3. The key point of this PEP is that >> those situations affect more people than just the developers and users of >> the affected application: their existence becomes something that developers >> of secure networked services need to take into account as part of their >> security design. By making it more feasible to enhance the security of the >> Python 2 series, we can help contribute to the evolution of a more secure >> internet for all concerned. >> >> For the Python 2 series, this proposal will most obviously impact the >> remaining maintenance releases of Python 2.7. However, commercial >> redistributors that continue to offer full support for Python 2.6, and will >> also do so for Python 2.7 after upstream maintenance ends, may choose >> to take this policy into account when deciding what changes to backport to >> their own maintenance updates. Providing commercial redistributors such >> as ActiveState, Attachmate, Canonical, Continuum Analytics, Enthought, and >> Red Hat that option is one of the benefits offered by requiring feature >> detection based forward compatibility for the modules covered by this policy. >> >> >> Open Questions >> ============== >> >> * What are the risks associated with allowing OpenSSL to be updated to >> new feature versions in the Windows and Mac OS X binary installers for >> maintenance releases? >> >> * Are there any other security relevant modules that should be covered >> by either a blanket or conditional exemption? >> >> * Should we enumerate a specific list of "other networking modules" rather >> than leaving it implicit? >> >> >> Acknowledgement >> =============== >> >> Thanks to Christian Heimes for his recent efforts on greatly improving >> Python's SSL support in the Python 3 series, and a variety of members of >> the Python community for helping me to better understand the implications >> of the default settings we provide in our SSL modules, and the impact that >> tolerating the use of SSL infrastructure that was defined in 2010 >> (Python 2.7) or even 2008 (Python 2.6) potentially has for the security >> of the web as a whole. >> >> Christian and Donald Stufft also provided valuable feedback on a preliminary >> draft of this proposal. >> >> >> Copyright >> ========= >> >> This document has been placed in the public domain. >> >> >> >> .. >> Local Variables: >> mode: indented-text >> indent-tabs-mode: nil >> sentence-end-double-space: t >> fill-column: 70 >> coding: utf-8 >> End: >> >> >> -- >> Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-Dev mailing list >> Python-Dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ben%40bendarnell.com > > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io
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