----- Original Message -----
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 04:42:02AM -0400, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda
> > > <bkab...@redhat.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I'd like to start a discussion about the release where we
> > > > should
> > > > switch to Python 3. As I have learned recently, Ubuntu 12.10
> > > > will
> > > > have Python 3 as default [1], which makes me a sad panda :(
> > > > We always take pride in being close to upstream and having the
> > > > bleeding edge. Python 3 is stable and more and more libraries
> > > > support it. So I'd like to propose an idea to switch to Python
> > > > 3
> > > > for Fedora 19.
> > >
> > > In which a way do you want to switch to python3?
> > > For me, that means any mention of "python" is synonym to
> > > "python3",
> > > which leads to the question, what is inside a python-foo package?
> > > The module foo, built for python3?
> > >
> >
> > As you say, switching means /usr/bin/python -> /usr/bin/python3.
> > And yes, that is a very valid point about the naming, I think.
> >
> Porting, taking those ports upstream, and even *tiny shudder*
> carrying those
> python3 patches locally for a loooong time, I could support.
>
> Switching /usr/bin/python to point to /usr/bin/python3 I'd be very
> much
> against (at least for several years):
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
>
> has a section that says it may someday be updated to recommend
> changing
> a /usr/bin/python symlink to point at python3. I would wait to make
> the
> link change until that PEP is updated (or many other unix
> distributions are
> also ready to make the switch). Switching the link is a largely
> symbolic
> gesture that creates more work for package maintainers, more work for
> end
> users, and more work for developers (who all have to find uses of
> /usr/bin/python and change them to /usr/bin/python2).
>
Well, my opinion is different on this. The PEP says that bleeding edge
distributions may have python3 as a default. And I like to think of Fedora as
bleeding edge.
> Switching /usr/bin/python to /usr/bin/python3 sacrifices practicality
> to
> purity which is unpythonic :-)
>
> > > It would be best to rename all python-foo packages, to
> > > python2-foo or
> > > python3-foo and don't allow subpackaging of modules, which
> > > provide
> > > multiple python versions. And when that's consistent, we can
> > > switch
> > > /usr/bin/python to python3.
> > >
> >
> > I agree about the renaming. Having said that, I don't like that the
> > users will need to install python2-foo or python3-foo, not just
> > python-foo. On the other hand, the normal users will just get
> > stuff and update it. The developers using various versions of
> > python might actually appreciate the knowledge of what they are
> > installing.
> >
> One of the things that tomspur and I talkd about relating to this...
> There's
> a large potntial for confusion (in, for instance, bugzilla) if we
> simply
> rename python-foo to python2-foo if the python-foo package was
> building
> a python3-foo subpackage. If you find a bug in python3-foo, you'd
> need to
> file it against python2-foo in bugzilla... very non-intuitive.
>
> A way to deal with this would be to stop shipping python3-foo as
> subpackages. Modules for python3-foo would have to be from separate
> srpms.
>
> Another way would be to have empty python-foo main packages that
> generates
> python2-foo and python3-foo subpackages. That's kinda ugly though.
>
> Regarding users needing to install python2-foo vs python3-foo: I'd
> propose
> virtual provides *for backwards compatibility*. For several years,
> yum
> install python-foo would match a
> Provides: python-foo = %{version}-%{release}
>
> in the python2-foo package. At some point we'd decide these were no
> longer
> worthwhile and get rid of them. Note that this would only be for
> backwards
> compat. We'd never change them to install python3-foo. It's just to
> wean
> users off of python-foo meaning python2-foo.
>
Yep, shipping python2 and python3 packages separately and having the virtual
provides both sound very good to me, I thought about something similar.
(BTW I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion from my side, as I'm leaving for a
vacation. I'll be glad to continue when I return :) Have a good time everyone!)
> -Toshio
>
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--
Regards,
Bohuslav "Slavek" Kabrda.
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