Please realize that I first clicked on the python-sig request in FAS nearly a year ago as I remember it. I applied for the python-sig mailing list a bit later. When I finally noticed on IRC that I had missed something in the process, I read the wiki and realized I needed to post a Self-Introduction, which I did in April. So I did not do things in the right order, but the time scale here is getting quite silly, no?
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Spura <toms...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > Petr Viktorin <pvikt...@redhat.com> schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um > 09:59 Uhr: > >> On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote: >> > On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote: >> >> Hi Petr, >> >> >> >> It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. >> My >> >> job depends on it. >> >> >> >> I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. >> And >> >> we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in >> >> return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? >> The >> >> only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or >> >> #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way >> >> thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A >> >> human on the other end must make some action to move the process >> forward. >> >> >> >> Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the >> >> main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from >> >> him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer >> >> and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet. >> >> What was his response? >> > > My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time > to work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python > community and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig > to get everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig > and more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for > "please write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list" > was exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion. > I can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the > same... > > And so there has to be a way to get to know new people or the whole thing is not maintainable. I am just trying to figure out what that "way" is, giiven my current situation. > >> But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from >> >> my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red >> Hat >> >> insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees >> >> have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to >> >> python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait >> >> for action on the part of a member of python-sig. >> >> You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much >> smaller group: >> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor >> >> FWIW: >> - Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell. >> > > - I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more >> than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope >> that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me. >> > > I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active > on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there. > > >> That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please >> >> submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know >> you?". >> >> But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig. >> >> I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki >> says: >> "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and >> processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10 >> Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of >> packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this, >> please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list >> of those in FAS.) " >> > > This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had > a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok > and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig. > So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do. >> >> The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably >> it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have >> been in contact with one of the sponsors before. >> > > Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor > someone who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python > packages, getting to know a sponsor should be doable. > > When I started this process, the information on the wiki was quite different, as Thomas mentioned. https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/Python&diff=465844&oldid=418899 > I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we hope that > this process will improve in the coming weeks... > > All the best, > Thomas > > At this point, I am trying to keep an open mind and not just feel burned by the python-sig community. I am maintaining the only package I care about that became orphaned. I will continue to do so. I don't have a current need for packages not supported already by Fedora. So now I am stuck with your group's desire for me to be a maintainer of 5 to 10 packages. Since I don't have new packages I want to add, I would need to request to become a co-maintainer of existing packages. Then the current maintainers might likely say, we don't know you so no. I am still stuck in limbo. Or at least that is how it seems right now. I want to help the community. Why else would I be working on Fedora? My entire career is open source now. Every day. All day. I think I made a fairly good argument in my Self-Introduction about my background and my contributions outside of Fedora for python in particular. I am here offering to help Fedora as well. Now it is time to figure out what the path forward is. Reality may simply be that I get too busy with other things and the bad experience turns me off to wanting to help python-sig. At least my speaking up is causing new discussion in the group and I am thankful for that. But I will note that no one has suggested an actual path forward yet in my own case. No one actually said anything--at al--until I pinged Thomas directly. I am glad to hear Thomas say that changes are in the works so that others may have a better experience. Cheers. --Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center) FAS: ttorling (perl-sig, modularity-wg) > > Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with >> > the SIG and a onboarding process. >> > >> > Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of >> > approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved, >> > approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a >> > sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open >> > discussion about each person, including a vote.) > > -- >> Petr Viktorin >> _______________________________________________ >> python-devel mailing list >> python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> >
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