Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek <zbys...@in.waw.pl> schrieb am Mo., 12. Dez. 2016, 02:59:
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 11:24:54AM +0000, Thomas Spura wrote: > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek <zbys...@in.waw.pl> schrieb am Sa., 10. Dez. > > 2016 um 23:50 Uhr: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 05:41:45PM -0500, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > > > <zbys...@in.waw.pl> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 11:56:44PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > > >> Along similar lines, what do folks think of the idea of patching > > > > >> Python 3.6 in Fedora to assume UTF-8 if it's told that it should > use > > > > >> ASCII to communicate with the OS? > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > Non-utf8 environments are nowadays a rarity, OTOH misconfigured > > > > > installations which do support utf8 but are just missing an env var > > > > > are rather common (e.g. mock). > > > > > > > > Why aren't we fixing Fedora Cloud/Atomic and the container images to > > > > be C.UTF-8 instead of just plain C, then? > > > > > > It's a game of whack-a-mole. You can always fix that place you just > > > noticed where it's missing, but then a few days later it's in another > > > place. Not saying that we should be initializing the locale properly, > > > but rather than we can do both independently. > > > > > > > > To change the default encoding for python was proposed a while ago [1], > but > > was finally dropped again, as upstream didn't agree to this change. Did > > anything changed here from upstream python? > > > > Best, > > Thomas > > > > [1] > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PythonEncodingUsesSystemLocale > > That was 2010, now it's 2016, going on 2017. That was Python 2, now > it's Python 3.6 ;) But seriously, with Python 2 such changes were much > more risky: Unicode was bolted on, and it was (is) very easy to cause > things to fail unpredictably when Unicode was added to the mix. But > with Python 3, Unicode is the basis upon which everything is built, > and things more often start to fail when (unexpectedly) input is > suddenly not Unicode. I think the considerations are a bit different > for Python upstream, which has a lot of Windows users and utf-16, and > for Linux, where utf-8 is pervasive. > Don't get me wrong. I'm +1 for unicode everywhere :) > To make things less hand-wavy: there are concrete examples where this > would be known to help: containers as mentioned in the original > proposal, and mock (in my experience tests most often require setting > an utf-8 environment to work). Do we know of examples where the > proposed change would make things worse? > I don't and didn't when this change was dropped a few years ago... It would certainly help to discuss this also upstream and if there is no objection, implement Nick's proposal. Best, Thomas >
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