> -----Original Message----- > From: Python-ideas [mailto:python-ideas-bounces+tritium- > list=sdamon....@python.org] On Behalf Of Erik Bray > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 6:28 AM > To: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> > Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Alex Walters <tritium-l...@sdamon.com> > wrote: > > Then those users have more fundamental problems. There is a minimum > level > > of computer knowledge needed to be successful in programming. > Insulating > > users from the reality of the situation is not preparing them to be > > successful. Pretending that there is no system command prompt, or shell, > or > > whatever platform specific term applies, only hurts new programmers. > Give > > users an error message they can google, and they will be better off in the > > long run than they would be if we just ran pip for them. > > While I completely agree with this in principle, I think you > overestimate the average beginner.
Nope. I totally get that they don’t know what a shell or command prompt is. THEY. NEED. TO. LEARN. Hiding it is not a good idea for anyone. If this is an insurmountable problem for the newbie, maybe they really shouldn’t be attempting to program. This field is not for everyone. > Many beginners I've taught or > helped, even if they can manage to get to the correct command prompt, > often don't even know how to run the correct Python. They might often > have multiple Pythons installed on their system--maybe they have > Anaconda, maybe Python installed by homebrew, or a Python that came > with an IDE like Spyder. If they're on OSX often running "python" > from the command prompt gives the system's crippled Python 2.6 and > they don't know the difference. > > One thing that has been a step in the right direction is moving more > documentation toward preferring running `python -m pip` over just > `pip`, since this often has a better guarantee of running `pip` in the > Python interpreter you intended. But that still requires one to know > how to run the correct Python interpreter from the command-line (which > the newbie double-clicking on IDLE may not even have a concept of...). > > While I agree this is something that is important for beginners to > learn (e.g. print(sys.executable) if in doubt), it *is* a high bar for > many newbies just to install one or two packages from pip, which they > often might need/want to do for whatever educational pursuit they're > following (heck, it's pretty common even just to want to install the > `requests` module, as I would never throw `urllib` at a beginner). > > So while I don't think anything proposed here will work technically, I > am in favor of an in-interpreter pip install functionality. Perhaps > it could work something like this: > > a) Allow it *only* in interactive mode: running `pip(...)` (or > whatever this looks like) outside of interactive mode raises a > `RuntimeError` with the appropriate documentation > b) When running `pip(...)` the user is supplied with an interactive > prompt explaining that since installing packages with `pip()` can > result in changes to the interpreter, it is necessary to restart the > interpreter after installation--give them an opportunity to cancel the > action in case they have any work they need to save. If they proceed, > install the new package then restart the interpreter for them. This > avoids any ambiguity as to states of loaded modules before/after pip > install. > > > > > From: Stephan Houben [mailto:stephan...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:43 PM > > To: Alex Walters <tritium-l...@sdamon.com> > > Cc: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> > > Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > 2017-10-29 20:26 GMT+01:00 Alex Walters <tritium-l...@sdamon.com>: > > > > return “Please run pip from your system command prompt” > > > > > > > > > > > > The target audience for my proposal are people who do not know > > > > which part of the sheep the "system command prompt" is. > > > > Stephan > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Python-ideas > > [mailto:python-ideas-bounces+tritium-list=sdamon....@python.org] On > Behalf > > Of Stephan Houben > > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:19 PM > > To: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> > > Subject: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Here is in somewhat more detail my earlier proposal for > > > > having in the interactive Python interpreter a `pip` function to > > > > install packages from Pypi. > > > > Motivation: it appears to me that there is a category of newbies > > > > for which "open a shell and do `pip whatever`" is a bit too much. > > > > It would, in my opinion, simplify things a bit if they could just > > > > copy-and-paste some text into the Python interpreter and have > > > > some packages from pip installed. > > > > That would simplify instructions on how to install package xyz, > > > > without going into the vagaries of how to open a shell on various > > > > platforms, and how to get to the right pip executable. > > > > I think this could be as simple as: > > > > def pip(args): > > import sys > > import subprocess > > subprocess.check_call([sys.executable, "-m", "pip"] + args.split()) > > > > print("Please re-start Python now to use installed or upgraded > > packages.") > > > > Note that I added the final message about restarting the interpreter > > > > as a low-tech solution to the problem of packages being already > > > > imported in the current Python session. > > > > I would imagine that the author of package xyz would then put on > > > > their webpage something like: > > > > To use, enter in your Python interpreter: > > > > pip("install xyz --user") > > > > As another example, consider prof. Baldwin from Woolamaloo university > > > > who teaches a course "Introductory Python programming for Sheep > Shavers". > > > > In his course material, he instructs his students to execute the > > > > following line in their Python interpreter. > > > > pip("install woolamaloo-sheepshavers-goodies --user") > > > > which will install a package which will in turn, as dependencies, > > > > pull in a number of packages which are relevant for sheep shaving but > > > > which have nevertheless irresponsibly been left outside the stdlib. > > > > Stephan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Python-ideas mailing list > > Python-ideas@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Python-ideas mailing list > Python-ideas@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
