>> Now, following that route, many people call Eclipse is the 21st >> century Emacs... ;-) >> > > I don't want to kick off an editor war or anything, but I don't think > that Eclipse is anywhere near being a 21st century emacs,
Peace! I'm far from starting any war too (I don't usually try to convince anyone about choosing a tool, as I believe that there's no such thing as the correct choice there, only different points of view and experiences -- the right thing is trying for yourself and deciding what you like better -- but at least I'm going to answer to some of your comments to try to be informative here). > unless > there's been a whole lot of progress with it since the last time I > used it. With emacs, I can have multiple files open in one window, > with the window split (I don't remember eclipse being able to do this, > although it allowed multiple files in their own tabs), You should be able to have it.... having multiple views for the same file: although it does that by doing a new editor, and then you can place that new editor as you want -- below some existing, to the right, etc -- or you can use an external plugin for something more closer to what emacs has: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Implement_Split_File_Editor_Functionality_for_the_Eclipse_IDE -- note: I don't personally use that -- usually I try to keep the modules small ;-) > and I can > customize the actions of the editor on the fly, without restarting it, > in a variant of LISP. That may be possible in Eclipse, I don't really > know. Depends on what you want: http://fabioz.com/pydev/manual_articles_scripting.html (but that's just one of lots of ways to customize it) > I used to use Eclipse and pydev, but once I learned my way around > emacs, I haven't gone back to it for anything. I probably would if I > did any coding in Java - but I don't. I'm exponentially more > productive with emacs while writing python code than I ever was with > Eclipse. I must say that I'm totally the other way around... even being productive in emacs, there's really no comparison there for me (disclaimer: I'm the author of Pydev, so, that's expected, but I know many people that changed to it and say the same thing) > Add to that the degree to which emacs is customizable (just about > everything that the editor does can be customized, you can jump > quickly to the source of the functions you're running while editing, > you can easily patch behavior in before or after specific function > calls, you can easily define keyboard macros and bind them to > keystrokes, and / or save them for future use, you can easily create > keystrokes that correspond to interactive filling out of templates - > "skeletons", etc), and I really don't see how someone could think that > Eclipse is anywhere near being a replacement for emacs. The one thing I miss in Eclipse (for which I use notepad++) is the macros, but that's about it... Everything else is highly customizable for me in Eclipse / Pydev... everything else is there (templates, keybindings, jumping through code: going fast to any file/definition you want in your project, hyperlinking in console, etc) Also, I don't think outside of Eclipse there's anything close to what Mylyn gives you in terms of knowing what code is really important when working on a task ( http://www.eclipse.org/mylyn/ ). > Not to mention that I don't need to have X installed to run emacs if I > don't need it. > > I may be wrong about the capabilities of Eclipse, as I haven't used it > in about a year, and emacs certainly has it's own set of quirks and > annoyances - one of which being the very steep learning curve. Eclipse also has that -- And I'm pretty sure that the more you use a tool the more you get productive in it. > Watching the screencasts linked in the blog post you linked to, I > might prefer Eclipse to emacs if I wasn't very used to never touching > a mouse, or if I was developing under windows. With my editing mindset > the way it is right now, when I see that, I just see a lot of wasted > screen space, and a lot of wasted time doing things like intellisense. > Also, the blog post didn't really give any reasons as to _why_ the > person switched over, other than that they were impressed with > Eclipse. I (almost) never do touch my mouse inside eclipse too ;-) And yes, it's very subjective. > Meh, I'm not talking trash on Eclipse - it's a fine tool if it fits > how you work with text / code. It's just not for me, and I would feel > crippled while using it if I switched back to it. I used IDEs like > that for a few years, but after about a month and a half of using > emacs, I haven't looked back. I even use it as my IRC client when I > jump on IRC. Yeap, having lots of plugins is something both emacs and eclipse have -- and until now, living within Eclipse has been a pleasant journey to me ;-) Also, as I said in the other post, choosing where you'll develop it's a highly subjective thing, so, the right thing to do is look the options, try them and decide for yourself. > I do think that people should try a variety of styles of editors to > find what works best for them though - although it does take a lot of > time to learn your way around 3 or 4 different editors, once you find > what fits with you, you will probably get a huge boost in productivity. Totally agree with that. Cheers, Fabio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list