On 06/06/10 03:22, ant wrote:
I get the strong feeling that nobody is really happy with the state of
Python GUIs.
Tkinter is not widely liked, but is widely distributed. WxPython and
PyGtk are both
powerful, but quirky in different ways. PyQt is tied to one platform.
And there are
dozens more.
Yeah I have the same problem with washing machines, I usually end up in
one setting that works for me. But then again if Apple would make a
washing mashing with only one button that says 'wash' everybody would be
upset again because their favourite fabric does not have a special
setting and users would be confused whether to put in washing powder
before of after they have pushed the button.
Whether or not we like graphics programming, it's not going to go
away. I get the
uneasy feeling whenever I start a new project that there should be a
'better' GUI
than the ones I currently use (WxPython and PyGtk).
Perhaps the problem is saying 'GUI', sure by definition they're all
graphical and ment for the user, but the interface is ambiguous,
something that works well for touchscreen devices fails completely for
voice control and is perhaps confusing for pointers or keyboard
interaction.
The next problem is integration, do I want to make it feel like it is
part of the overall GUI (if there is any) or do I define my own
'standard'. With so many variables and different angles, it is no wonder
that there are so many different toolkits. Though I have to say that
most toolkits seems to struggle to define their own purpose.
Fragmentation is our enemy. Our resources are being dissipated. Is it
not time to
start again? We have shown that it is possible to do the right thing,
by creating Python3.
That was not starting again (perhaps in coding terms) but in design
terms it was more or less glorified clean-up. Besides fragmentation is
the natural state if anything has multiple, equally right (or wrong),
interpretations.
I ask the group; should we try to create a new GUI for Python, with
the following
properties?:
- Pythonic
- The default GUI (so it replaces Tkinter)
- It has the support of the majority of the Python community
- Simple and obvious to use for simple things
- Comprehensive, for complicated things
- Cross-platform
- Looks good (to be defined)
- As small as possible in its default form
Cross-platform for GUI is a female dog, I have no idea what the right
solution is, but being non native all the time might not be the worst of
all possibilities.
If so, what are the next steps?
World domination and making GUI's against the law, everybody back to the
command line, driven by either voice, virtual/real keyboard or a direct
brain interface :-)
The Python SIG on GUIs closed years ago. Should that be revived?
This is "A Modest Proposal" (J. Swift). In a sense, I am suggesting
that
we eat our own babies.
All reasonable to me even if you don't build a new gui.
But don't we owe it to the community?
That is the same as saying 'Do I owe it to myself?', well do you?
--
mph
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