On Dec 31, 3:04 pm, Robert <sigz...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2010-12-30 22:28:39 -0500, rantingrick said: > > > On Dec 30, 8:41�pm, Robert <sigz...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 2010-12-30 19:46:24 -0500, rantingrick said: > >> Just to clarify...I like Python. I am learning it at the moment. > > > Glad to have you aboard Robert! > > Thanks! > > > > >>> 3. What is your opinion of Tkinter as to it's usefulness within the > >>> stdlib? > > >> No, I really don't see the need for it to be in the stdlib but that > >> isn't my call. > > > But it is your call Robert. Anyone who writes Python code --whether > > they be a beginner with no prior programming experience or a fire > > breathing Python Guru-- has a right to inject their opinion into th > > community. We really need input from first time users as they carry > > the very perspective that we have completely lost! > > I speak up. :-) > > > > > > >>> 5. Should Python even have a GUI in the stdlib? > > >> I would say "no" but that is my opinion only and it doesn't matter. > >> Python's domain isn't GUI programming so having it readily available on > >> the sidelines would be fine for me. > > > I agree that Python's domain is not "specifically" GUI programming > > however to understand why Tkinter and IDLE exists you need to > > understand what Guido's dream was in the beginning. GvR wanted to > > bring Programming to everyone (just one of his many heroic goals!). He > > believed (i think) that GUI programming is very important , and that > > was 20 years ago!!. So he included Tkinter mainly so new Python > > programmers could hack away at GUI's with little or no effort. He also > > created a wonderful IDE for beginners called IDLE. His idea was > > perfect, however his faith in TclTk was flawed and so we find > > ourselves in the current situation we have today. With the decay of > > Tkinter the dream has faded. However we can revive this dream and > > truly bring Python into the 21st century! > > I don't think Tkinter was in there for "large" programming. Tkinter is > crufty and probably should be moved out. For whipping up quick gui > things to scratch an itch it is good. > > I lurk more on the Tcl side of things. When the mention of "separating" > Tcl and Tk development, I fall on the side of separating them. Tcl, > like Python should stand on its own. Widget frameworks are extras to > me. One way the Tcl community has "stagnated" has been its insistence > on Tk. There was a wxTcl project...it died. That would have been good > for the Tcl community. Luckily there is a GTk framework (Gnocl) that is > really good. But it still doesn't get the props that it deserves. The > second way the Tcl community irks me is the "not invented here" > attitude. I like the syntax of Tcl and I like the community. They are > some good folks. Try asking "I want to build a Nagios clone in Tcl" > type question and invariably you get "Why? There is already Nagios?". > That stems from the "glue" language roots I think but to me that is the > wrong attitude. You want people to take a look at a language (any > language), you build stuff with it that people want to use. Ruby would > not be as big as it is if Rails hadn't come along. > > Nuff of that... ;-) > > > > > > >>> 6. If Python should have a GUI, then what traits would serve our > >>> community best? > > >> This is a good one. > > >> It should be: > > >> - cross platform > >> - Pythonic > >> - as "native" as possible > > >> Cross platform and native are hard. Just look at all the work with > >> PyQt/PySide and wxPython. It took them years to get where they are. > > > Hmm, wxPython is starting to look like the answer to all our problems. > > WxPython already has an IDE so there is no need to rewrite IDLE > > completely. What do we have to loose by integrating wx into the > > stdlib, really? > > wxPython is really good. The downside is that is shows (or did show) > its C++ roots. > > Nokia is making a run with PySide (their version of the PyQt framework) > and since it has a company behind it might go pretty far. Qt can be > used for a lot of problem domains. > > Anyway, I wasn't meaning to be rough with you. Just trying to figure > out where you were coming from. I am acquianted with Kevin Walzer and > he is a good guy. > > -- > Robert
I thank this thread for putting me onto Pyside +1 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list