On 18.01.2011 21:23, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
From: "Alexander Kapps"<alex.ka...@web.de>
Tkinter causes damage? Very bad damage? What are you talking about?
I am talking about the fact that Python promotes Tkinter, and many beginners
will start using it, and they will start creating applications with it, and
they will learn to use it better than WxPython, and they will start believing
that Tkinter is better because it is easier to use than WxPython, so they will
start convincing others that Tkinter is the best, and they will start finding
many reasons that show that Tkinter is better. And after this, they will say
that they don't care about the real problems generated by GUIs like Tk.
And a very big problem is that the applications that use Tk/GTK are not
accessible for screen readers, so those applications will be just blank for
people with visual impairments which need to use a screen reader.
Those applications won't be less nice, or just a little harder to use. They
won't be accessible at all and they will help the discrimination of the blind
people, and not because of technical problems, because those problems can be
solved with a better interface like Wx, which is not perfectly accessible
either, but it is much better. That discrimination appears just because some
people say that they don't care.
Well, I don't like wx that much and others have already highlighted
some of the problems with it. I think that adding redundancy is bad
It is a redundancy for you, but have you imagined that for some people the
display is the redundant part of the computer?
I was talking about redundancy as in duplication of already existing
parts. However, for some people, networking is superfluous. That's
not a reason to remove the networking modules from the stdlib.
Anyway, If you think duplicating functionality is a good approach
here, go on, I don't mind. Just remember to stop somewhen and don't
include 10 GUI toolkits and 20 HTML parsers just because some people
don't like the already existing ones.
You said a GUI lib is useless because not all programmers write
GUIs. so I say an HTML lib is useless because not all programmers
write web stuff. Got it? Both are useful and I'm absolutely against
any attempt to remove either from the stdlib. *That* would cause damage.
I didn't say that a GUI lib is useless. The GUIS that create discrimination by
offering access only for some users (when there are other GUIS that can offer
access to everyone) create damage and they should be avoided, and for avoiding
them, the beginners need to understand this. But Python promotes that bad GUI
lib by including it in the default package instead of promoting a better lib.
Please read your previous post. Anyway *which* GUI offers access to
everyone?
Which one? That's the whole point. There currently is no better GUI
lib than Tkinter which allows quick and easy GUI programming and
Are you a beginner? A good programmer is not interested only to create an
application with 10 lines of code, no matter the results.
I'm neither a beginner, nor really a professional programmer. I
occasionally do paid coding and that often includes small tools and
helper utilities and one thing I can tell you: In approx 90% of
those cases, people want a GUI. It hasn't to be fancy, they just
don't want no command line tools.
Tkinter is just great for quickly hacking together a GUI or for
prototyping if somebody wants something more advanced.
The application need to have a good quality and to be accessible by everyone if
the technology allows it.
Why do we like the portable GUIS and don't really like the native interfaces
that don't work on other platforms?
Because we want our programs to be usable by as many people as possible. Well, some
platforms render the output as sound and Tkinter are not "portable" on those
platforms (screen readers).
I have absolutely no problem with a better GUI lib, I just don't care
Well, I was sure that you are one of those who don't care...
You make that sound as if I should feel guilty now.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
