On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:18:44 +0200, Frank Millman wrote:
> I have realised that we unlikely to come to an agreement on this in the
> near future, as our philosophies are completely different.
>
> You [Chris Angelo] have stated that your objective is to express as
> much as possible in Python code.
>
> I have stated that my objective is to express as little as possible in
> Python code.
Interesting perspective.
> We would have to resolve that difference of opinion first, before
> discussing our respective approaches in detail, and that is way beyond
> the scope of this thread.
>
> As a brief example of my approach, here is how I would write your simple
> 'About' box.
>
> Here is your version -
>
> mainwindow = GTK2.Window(0)->add(GTK2.Vbox(0,0)
> ->add(GTK2.Label("About Gypsum: big long multi-line string"))
> ->add(GTK2.HbuttonBox()
> ->add(GTK2.Button("Close"))
> ->add(GTK2.Button("Foobar"))
> )
> );
That's not Python code, but it's reasonably concise and readable. (By the
way, what language is it?) The meaning is fairly obvious, and it's all
pretty simple. I'd like to see a more human readable GUI designer
language:
# hypothetical code in a DSL for creating GUI elements
create new window mainwindow
with mainwindow
add vbox at 0,0
add label "About Gypsum: big long multi-line string"
add hbuttonbox
add button "Close"
add button "Foobar"
but what you've got there is okay. Seven lines of readable code.
> Here is my version -
>
> <form name="ChrisAbout_form">
> <data_objects/>
> <input_params/>
> <output_params/>
> <rules/>
> <frame>
> <body>
> <block/> <!-- an html div -->
> <panel/> <!-- an html table -->
> <row/>
> <col/>
> <text value="This is line one of a multi-line string"/> <row/>
> <col/>
> <text value="This is line two of a multi-line string"/> <row/>
> <col/>
> <text value="This is line three of a multi-line string"/>
> </body>
> <button_row> <!-- an html div -->
> <button btn_id="btn_close" btn_label="Close" len="60"
> btn_enabled="true" btn_validate="false" btn_default="true">
> <end_form state="completed"/>
> </button>
> <button btn_id="btn_foo" btn_label="Foobar" len="60"
> btn_enabled="true" btn_validate="false" btn_default="false">
> <pyfunc name="path1.path2.foobar"/>
> </button>
> </button_row>
> <frame_methods>
> <method name="on_req_close"> <!-- user clicked [X] or pressed
> Shift_F4 -->
> <end_form state="completed"/>
> </method>
> <method name="on_req_cancel"> <!-- user pressed Escape -->
> <end_form state="completed"/>
> </method>
> </frame_methods>
> </frame>
> </form>
Thirty. Seven. Lines. Of. XML.
You've got to be kidding me. How can you *possibly* prefer that?
First rule of XML: it is not human-writable. It's barely human-readable.
It's a *document* interchange language which happens to use mostly human-
readable elements, which is not the same thing at all. It's designed to
be machine written. Using XML for *data* is abusive to both the XML
design goals and to the poor schmuck who has to read your config file.
Using XML *as a programming language* is not just abuse, it's getting
into grievous bodily harm territory.
Here's a simple programming expression, familiar to most people, common
to hundreds of programming languages:
3+4*5
Here it is written as XML:
<add><int>3</int><mult><int>4</int><int>5</int></mult></add>
Source:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml/index.html
More here:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/05/xml-the-angle-bracket-tax.html
http://myarch.com/why-xml-is-bad-for-humans/
If you expect a human being to routinely *read*, let alone *write*, XML
in preference to some real programming language, that is a horrible,
horrible thing. Using XML as an internal, machine-generated, format not
intended for humans is not too bad. Anything else is abusive.
--
Steven
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