On Monday, February 17, 2014 8:58:23 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > The correct statement is "all values are objects", or "all data is > > > objects". > > > When people mistakenly say "everything is an object", they are implicitly > > > only thinking about data. > > > That said, "all data is objects" is really mostly useful in contrast to > > > other languages where some data is objects and some is not. > > Part of the trouble is that some code is (represented by) objects. A > > function is an object, ergo it's data; a module is an object (though > > that's different); a class is an object; but no other block of code > > is. > Lambda? > > So when does code become data? When it's represented by an object. > OK, now take somebody who knows lisp and try to explain to him or her > why Python's eval() doesn't mean data is code. Yeah, I know that's > pushing things a bit, but I'm trying to point out that people come into > things with pre-conceived notions that are hard to shake (the psychology > of learning people would call this the Law of Primacy). More true than you (probably) know. No Ive not seen a newcomer to python who is an old hand at lisp* What Ive seen is: 25 years ago a 'newcomer' -- like all python objects are objects -- was a newcomer. One of the things I learnt early was that kids were terrified of a beastie that has two modes -- one in which it beeps and the other in which it corrupts the file -- also called 'vi.' Add to that C and pointers and all that and it was just too much. So my first assignment was not programming but just to type a poem. Nowadays the 'newcomers' come with half a dozen computers -- including the phones in their pockets. They know all sorts of technologies that I dont -- Whats a raspberry-pi or an xbox? I frankly dont know more than the names All of them seem to use their phones more savvily than I do! So I cannot even effectively evaluate what percentage of their knowledge is ok, what confused and what balderdash. No -- a clean slate is not a realistic luxury in 2014. * with the exception of yours truly 12 years ago -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list