FYI - this guy (http://www.dr-chuck.com/) is also active at 3rd level with Python education - his intro book on Google App Engine is pretty good, too, and it looks like he's just published another book which uses Python to teach informatics.
On 9 January 2011 18:20, Paul Barry <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Julie (and everyone else). > > Thanks for the responses, folks - this is an interesting discussion. > > This issue is a complex one. However, I think the days of "weeding > out the weak ones" are over for Ireland's CS departments - most today > are more concerned with retaining students as the 50% drop-out is a > *national figure*. I'm not suggesting that such thinking didn't > (doesn't) exist, but it is very much the minority now - thankfully. > > Part of the issue is that there's this "let's teach them what the > Industry wants" attitude at work in first year. The thinking then > follows that C/C++/Java/C# are "what the Industry wants" so the sooner > students are exposed to these programming technologies, the better. > > It is ironic that at 50% drop-out, it doesn't matter that students are > exposed to "what the Industry wants" in year 1, as you've lost half of > them anyway. :-( > > Given this, it's even more ironic that (at IT Carlow, anyway), no one > complains when I cover Python at year 3 and 4, yet they go ape when I > suggest using it in first year. Some even go as far as suggesting > "it's not a real programming language" which, in my mind, confirms how > misinformed some of my co-workers sometimes show themselves to be. > > There's also a little bit of snobbery going on, too (imagine such a > thing at 3rd level!)... there's an attitude that "it was good enough > for me, and I learned it, so the same thing is good enough for my > students". Sigh. :-( > > And - of course - like all organizations, change is resisted within > 3rd level CS departments, too. This is hard to achieve traction > against. There's an awful lot of CS lecturers and professors who > actively resist learning anything new (let alone teaching it). Just > take a look at some of the offerings available to CAO applicants... > it's a bit like the dark ages sometimes. > > Now... I'm not suggesting that languages like Java, etc., are bad for > students. What I am suggesting is that languages like Java, etc., are > hard to teach, making them - by definition - a poor first language. > Python has no such problems, but - when it comes to this mailing list, > anyway - I'm already preaching to the converted. > > One final point: sometimes lecturers are restricted in what they can > teach - if it's on the syllabus, then it *must* be covered or the CS > department is in "breach of contract" and could - potentially - be > looking at lawsuits. "Your syllabus said you'd teach Java, you used > C++ instead and I failed - it's your fault, not mine and now I'm suing > you". Believe it or not, this sort of shit happens. At IT Carlow, > we've worked hard to remove any mention of specific technologies from > our course outlines (which, thankfully, gives me the freedom to do > what I want with my courses), but not all 3rd level facilities are so > lucky. It's a sorry state of affairs that the possibility of legal > action carries such clout... welcome to 21st century Ireland. :-( > > As I said at the start of this email: this issue is a complex one. > > But - on a positive note - if we all keep plugging away in what ever > way we can, things can only get better, albeit, slowly. :-) > > Cheers. > > Paul. > > -- > Paul Barry, w: http://paulbarry.itcarlow.ie, e: [email protected] > Lecturer, Computer Networking: Institute of Technology, Carlow, Ireland. > (More at: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/3677) > -- Paul Barry, w: http://paulbarry.itcarlow.ie, e: [email protected] Lecturer, Computer Networking: Institute of Technology, Carlow, Ireland. (More at: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/3677) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Python Ireland" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pythonireland?hl=en.
