On 13-feb-2006, at 20:14, Kevin Ollivier wrote:
Hi Ronald, On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:On 13-feb-2006, at 19:17, Bob Ippolito wrote:On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:On 13-feb-2006, at 1:37, Bob Ippolito wrote:wonder how hard this is to add to IDLE, or if we can just link to HTML docs. I'm not personally a big fan of Help Book anyway.I just read the source for pydoc, we could install the HTML docs in Python.framework/Resources/English.lproj/Documentation. Idlelib would need a patch to support this location. There's already specific configuration for windows and linux in there (in idlelib.EditorWindow)That sounds fine, we're going to be making a couple IDLE hacks anyway.Are we? We have a lot of patches anyway, adding another patch to teach idlelib about the document locations that pydoc recognizes won't be the most controversial one in our set of patches.I just remembered something else that needs to be done some time: create better icons, it's time to leave the 10 ton weight behind (or at the very least the current rendition of it). I won't do this though, given my skills in that deparment the icons would get worse instead of better.That's a good idea, but last I tried to get one of my friends to do something about that it turned out to be "too realistic". I'm not going to bother wasting anyone else's time.I remember that. Is that icon still available? That icon was a lot better than what we have now, if anyone complains about the realism they can come up with another icon :-).There are other potential designs for icons; for example, have you seen the snake icon for the wxPython demo (once it's loaded, it changes from the weight icon to the snake)? (Sorry, yes, I know who I'm asking. ;-) I also pointed out some other alternatives on some thread on this list in Nov. 2003, thread "MacPython logo redux". But then others complained, surprise, that it's too cartoony. :-) The problem is not that there's no other icons, it's just that we're not going to make everyone happy.
I haven't seen the icon, is it online somewhere? BTW. I do use wxPython at work, it is the easiest way to develop windows GUI's without leaving the comforts of my mac.
The Apple/snake icon, from an image perspective (and that's all it is...), has several problems with it. First, real snakes are scary and some people don't like looking at scary things. I had to put stickers over the cover of my O'Reilly Python library reference book because the snake on there creeps my wife out. I think I'll have a harder time now getting her to use Python... I won't even get into the biblical connotations, etc. of a mean-looking snake wrapped around an apple, but I think being non-offensive is, probably, a good idea if we're still talking about making Python appeal to others. As has been stated before in this discussion, we probably won't offend "too many people" with these things, but why do we have to offend anyone at all? A non-offensive 12-ton weight is at least better than a somewhat offensive snake.A more cartoonish/abstract design like the wxPython one won't spook anyone or have scary connotations, and while some people may not like it, it's closer to the Windows Python icon and heck, icons like Adium's are actually some of my favorites. There's also the issue that at small sizes, the snake becomes unrecognizable anyways making the icon look like an Apple with a yellow something at the bottom. But of course, this was all dregged up and discussed before.I really wish Python itself would get a standard icon across platforms, but that's another story. (The web site redesign seems totally stalled....)
A standard icon would be nice, but we really have to update the 10- ton icon its age is too obviously an OS9 icon. I know the snake is offensive/scary to some people, but I'm afraid that if we don't change now we'll never change. I don't mind having the snake icon on Bob's site in a first beta release of Universal Python if that stirs things up enough to get a less offensive icon in the final release. Bonus points for someone that is inspired by Monty Python.
Ronald
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