On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:35:21AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote: > On 2015-08-31 16:11, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > Hello! > > During the KVM forum, we discussed supporting virtio on top > > of ivshmem. > > No, not on top of ivshmem. On top of shared memory. Our model is > different from the simplistic ivshmem. > > > I have considered it, and came up with an alternative > > that has several advantages over that - please see below. > > Comments welcome. > > > > ----- > > > > Existing solutions to userspace switching between VMs on the > > same host are vhost-user and ivshmem. > > > > vhost-user works by mapping memory of all VMs being bridged into the > > switch memory space. > > > > By comparison, ivshmem works by exposing a shared region of memory to all > > VMs. > > VMs are required to use this region to store packets. The switch only > > needs access to this region. > > > > Another difference between vhost-user and ivshmem surfaces when polling > > is used. With vhost-user, the switch is required to handle > > data movement between VMs, if using polling, this means that 1 host CPU > > needs to be sacrificed for this task. > > > > This is easiest to understand when one of the VMs is > > used with VF pass-through. This can be schematically shown below: > > > > +-- VM1 --------------+ +---VM2-----------+ > > | virtio-pci +-vhost-user-+ virtio-pci -- VF | -- VFIO -- IOMMU -- > > NIC > > +---------------------+ +-----------------+ > > > > > > With ivshmem in theory communication can happen directly, with two VMs > > polling the shared memory region. > > > > > > I won't spend time listing advantages of vhost-user over ivshmem. > > Instead, having identified two advantages of ivshmem over vhost-user, > > below is a proposal to extend vhost-user to gain the advantages > > of ivshmem. > > > > > > 1: virtio in guest can be extended to allow support > > for IOMMUs. This provides guest with full flexibility > > about memory which is readable or write able by each device. > > By setting up a virtio device for each other VM we need to > > communicate to, guest gets full control of its security, from > > mapping all memory (like with current vhost-user) to only > > mapping buffers used for networking (like ivshmem) to > > transient mappings for the duration of data transfer only. > > This also allows use of VFIO within guests, for improved > > security. > > > > vhost user would need to be extended to send the > > mappings programmed by guest IOMMU. > > > > 2. qemu can be extended to serve as a vhost-user client: > > remote VM mappings over the vhost-user protocol, and > > map them into another VM's memory. > > This mapping can take, for example, the form of > > a BAR of a pci device, which I'll call here vhost-pci - > > with bus address allowed > > by VM1's IOMMU mappings being translated into > > offsets within this BAR within VM2's physical > > memory space. > > > > Since the translation can be a simple one, VM2 > > can perform it within its vhost-pci device driver. > > > > While this setup would be the most useful with polling, > > VM1's ioeventfd can also be mapped to > > another VM2's irqfd, and vice versa, such that VMs > > can trigger interrupts to each other without need > > for a helper thread on the host. > > > > > > The resulting channel might look something like the following: > > > > +-- VM1 --------------+ +---VM2-----------+ > > | virtio-pci -- iommu +--+ vhost-pci -- VF | -- VFIO -- IOMMU -- NIC > > +---------------------+ +-----------------+ > > > > comparing the two diagrams, a vhost-user thread on the host is > > no longer required, reducing the host CPU utilization when > > polling is active. At the same time, VM2 can not access all of VM1's > > memory - it is limited by the iommu configuration setup by VM1. > > > > > > Advantages over ivshmem: > > > > - more flexibility, endpoint VMs do not have to place data at any > > specific locations to use the device, in practice this likely > > means less data copies. > > - better standardization/code reuse > > virtio changes within guests would be fairly easy to implement > > and would also benefit other backends, besides vhost-user > > standard hotplug interfaces can be used to add and remove these > > channels as VMs are added or removed. > > - migration support > > It's easy to implement since ownership of memory is well defined. > > For example, during migration VM2 can notify hypervisor of VM1 > > by updating dirty bitmap each time is writes into VM1 memory. > > > > Thanks, > > > > This sounds like a different interface to a concept very similar to > Xen's grant table, no?
Yes in a sense that grant tables are also memory sharing and include permissions. But we are emulating an IOMMU, and keep the PV part as simple as possible (e.g. offset within BAR) without attaching any policy to it. Xen is fundamentally a PV interface. > Well, there might be benefits for some use cases, > for ours this is too dynamic, in fact. We'd like to avoid remappings > during runtime controlled by guest activities, which is clearly required > for this model. The dynamic part is up to the guest. For example, userspace pmd within guest would create mostly static mappings using VFIO. > Another shortcoming: If VM1 does not trust (security or safety-wise) VM2 > while preparing a message for it, it has to keep the buffer invisible > for VM2 until it is completed and signed, hashed etc. That means it has > to reprogram the IOMMU frequently. With the concept we discussed at KVM > Forum, there would be shared memory mapped read-only to VM2 while being > R/W for VM1. That would resolve this issue without the need for costly > remappings. IOMMU allows read-only mappings too. It's all up to the guest. > Leaving all the implementation and interface details aside, this > discussion is first of all about two fundamentally different approaches: > static shared memory windows vs. dynamically remapped shared windows (a > third one would be copying in the hypervisor, but I suppose we all agree > that the whole exercise is about avoiding that). Which way do we want or > have to go? > > Jan Dynamic is a superset of static: you can always make it static if you wish. Static has the advantage of simplicity, but that's lost once you realize you need to invent interfaces to make it work. Since we can use existing IOMMU interfaces for the dynamic one, what's the disadvantage? Let me put it another way: any security model you come up with should also be useful for bare-metal OS isolation from a device. That's a useful test for checking whether whatever we come up with makes sense, and it's much better than inventing our own. > -- > Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT RTC ITP SES-DE > Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux
