Kent Olsson schrieb:
Hej Andreas!
Please, tag down... It is no critics.
Hi Kent,
yes sure. But it's a bit problematic to find this out for us if your
messages a just following the style "does not work" or "is buggy". We
are very open for constructive bug reports. But these require a bit more
than just saying something is weak. Examples which are problematic or
detailed messages are more helpful to fix bugs.
A few bugs still exist related to the layouting design/mechanism,
> which is the weakest point of Qooxdoo at the moment.
Many people think, that qooxdoo has one of the most advanced layout
engines of any javascript gui toolkits. Please explain why you think it
is "the weakest point"?
First of all there are not many advanced GUI toolkits out there, just
few. Remember that I did not say weak! It was not a direct comparison
with other toolkits. I think Qooxdoo is the best at the moment, else I
would not be here, but it doesn't mean that there are no ways of doing
it better. I rather was comparing the different components of Qooxdoo.
In this context, I think the layout engine is the weakest point. It does
not at all mean that it is bad!!!!
There are always "ways of doing things it better". If we would wait
until all is perfect for a release we would never publish them.
"the layout engine is the weakest point" - I don't feel the same. There
are many complex parts in qooxdoo like the display queue, the selection
or the focus handling. But the most complex one is the layout engine.
You just cannot compare a simple system, which is implemented relatively
bug free (after some time), with a more complex one which has some
outstanding bugs. If you try to compare the size of the code base of the
layout engine to the other parts yourself, you will hopefully find out
that the layout engine is one biggest and most complex parts of qooxdoo.
Here are a few comments:
1. QxDockLayout
What does this mean? What's about the QxDockLayout. Some more details
would be great.
2. Adding QxCanvasLayout inside of a QxWindow, it does not keep the
dimensions. It expands invisibly outside the boundary of the border of
the window. When you drag the window it moves underlying text with it
without updating except after when you switch windows.
A example would be great. The question is what properties are set for
both the QxWindow instance and the QxCanvasLayout inside. Probably it's
just a misunderstanding. But we couldn't help you, if you don't tell us
some details.
3. Relative sizes do not work/not implemented
Not implemented things are not a bug. So we could add them to the TODO,
if you explain us in detail what features you need. However, we will not
simply say OK, that's great to each suggestion. We first ask for how
many users this features could be useful and if it has bad effects to
the overall performance.
4. Mixture of relative sizes and positions of widgets
Could you please explain what you mean here? Is this the same as #3?
5. proportional resizing of widgets when resizing a QxWindow or browser
window
Is this something different than using percent sizes? Could you please
explain it more deeply. Thanks.
6. problems with the upcoming pane (up/down) in a QxComboBox when
pressing the arrow buttons
I am sorry. But I don't understand what you mean here. What "upcoming
pane (up/down)"?
7. QxComboBox pane does not work well when space is not enough
Is the popup what you mean with "pane"? Could you please send us an
example which shows the problem?
8. most widgets are lines or small squares even though the size is set
to zero
Ok, that's because the browsers don't handle it correctly (If you look
at the generated style attribute, it should look ok). We could probably
add some more intelligence to the layouter to make widgets with width or
height equal zero invisible.
9. a few inconsistencies between the design of the layout models. Not
the same properties where I guess it should be the same.
What exactly do you mean here? I think its quite logical that different
layouts have different properties. As I can see any major toolkit out
there support different properties for different objects.
Please explain where you think the properties should be named the same
or implemented the same way. I will take a look than, what's possible to
solve your issues.
10. QxListView does not work perfectly
and more. I stop here.
QxListView is a great step forward in renderer. It's true that it's not
perfect yet. We will continue the work after renderer and try to fix
some issues, which we couldn't fix inside the current code base without
changing the API or the basic layout ideas.
Please report each bug or problem not already known.
You guys seem so sure about yourself and it makes difficult to have a
constructive discussion. Maybe you think it is useless to discuss these
things and at the same time think that what is is the absolutely best
solution and can never become better. I am trying to help.
We are cure about ourselves. That's true. We have a set of examples
which shows qooxdoo works almost well in many cases.
I don't think we make it "difficult to have a constructive discussion".
It's just your type of mails which is a bit problematic. What is your
expectation for us, if we read mails which just say something is buggy.
If you change your style of reports and add examples (like others
already have done) or detailed reports, we are really happy to discuss them.
The layout engine is as explained already one of the most complexest
parts in qooxdoo. It's not that easy to find better ways of doing thing.
We already have got some ideas to make it better, but to handle all
these cross-browser issues, to add features we want to have and to get a
great overall performance are not that easy to achieve. We are open to
discuss with you about better ways of doing things and bring all your
ideas together with our owns in the next generation of our layout system.
Anyway, please send detailed reports about the bugs you mentioned. For
quite some weeks there haven't been any bug reports. There is one known
bug that affects only QxListView inside complex layouts (flex, etc.).
This known bug has been documented since it has first appeared (see TODO
file).
mentioned above. Remember, I guess there are not, at least so far, many
Qooxdoo applications running yet. It would be nice to see how many
Qooxdoo applications are running. You could put a meter on the homepage
to show for example the following categories:
0. testing Qooxdoo
1. application under development (no testing)
2. running application (in the lab)
3. running application (in production)
We have 3 in production running application here. Also we have one
really big project which is in the testing phase.
In my opinion to build web applications is more complex than to build
simple HTML like pages. I think it's clear that there are not many
thousands of running projects using qooxdoo already.
Let people who are joining the list, tell what they are doing to
understand how many of them actually develop an application. This is a
good meter for all of us.
> I will try to come up with
suggestions on a better design if time permits.
Well, if you think you could help to substantially improve qooxdoo, we
all would really appreciate you took the time.
I promise I will set off some time but not before the end of next week.
Files are attached.
Again, no files are attached. I have gone through all mails on the list,
but unfortunately there have never been any attached files of your split
pane implementation. :-(
Strange. I will look...oh it is cut away. Let me see why. I will send
again.
The best for Qooxdoo
The best for qooxdoo. :)
Sebastian
Kent
Cheers,
Andreas
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