At 05:29 PM 4/8/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response: >Risking a life and taking a chance is not the same as willfully terminating a >life. I wasn't happy that she was doing IVF because I don't agree with it. I >also wasn't paying the thousands of dollars the treatments cost. She and her >husband had decided that if the first implantation had been successful they >were going to keep the rest frozen because they considered the embryos their >unborn children.
Do you mean indefinitely!?! >I don't agree with the whole process, but it's not up to me. It just compounds >the problem by saying the embryos are left over and going die anyway so might >as well use them for some research to make someone else better. > >Again, I could understand that for those who don't consider a 50-150 celled >human embryo a human life you wouldn't have a problem with using them for >research. It's just a meaningless clump of cells to you. Are you so closed >minded to see why someone who considers it a life would have a problem using >that life for research to improve someone else's life? Would you feel the same >if you did consider it a life? > >At 04:15 PM 4/8/2007, RollinOn wrote: >>Yes Jim, >>But there was a chance that she wouldnt have naturally and it was a risk she >>was willing to take. >>If the first wouldve not failed then the others wouldve been trashed and it >>happens daily, and fertilizing an egg and implanting it is not natural. >>I know she didnt willfully terminate the embryos but she took a risk that it >>could happen so you cant have it both ways and say she wasnt willing to >>risk human life (as you see it) because it was successful, its still risking >>human life. >> >>Im not saying anything is wrong with this procedure btw I think its great >>for people who want children and cant naturally but research wont be >>killing any more or less regardless of any laws being passed, meaning all >>this work and uproar and not one life saved but science and research could >>save the suffering of millions and theyre the killers! >> >>Mark Jackson >> RollinOn >> >> >>From: Jim Lubin [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:11 PM >>To: Dan; quad-list@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts >> >>Dan, >> >>Her eggs were harvested then fertilized with her husbands sperms, this >>resulted in 8 embryos. Four were implanted in uterus, all 4 failed to develop >>and she had a miscarriage. Several month later she had 3 more implanted and >>those failed to develop. >> >>How could anyone possibly equate a miscarriage, the natural or spontaneous >>end of a pregnancy at a stage where the embryo or the fetus is incapable of >>surviving, as a murderous act? She didn't willfully terminate the first 7 >>embryos, they failed to develop. >> >> >>At 12:33 PM 4/8/2007, Dan wrote: >> >>At 11:01 AM 4/8/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my >>response: >> >> >>I am against the whole IVF process that creates excess embryos to begin with. >> >> >>On a side note, my cousin just gave birth to a son last week. He was the >>result of IVF from her egg and her husband's sperm. They had 8 viable >>embryos. The first 7 she did not carry full term. I'm happy for them that the >>last one she was able to carry to term and mom and son are doing fine. >> >>Jim >> >>This is where your argument falls apart. First you say you are "against the >>whole IVF process that creates excess embryos to begin with." And that these >>eggs are sacred and never should be destroyed. But, then you say that it is >>wonderful that your cousin in fact murdered 7 sacred eggs before finally >>becoming pregnant - and pregnant is the operative word. >> >>Many human eggs are fertilized but very few result in pregnancy. Everything >>has to occur exactly in the right way and at the right time for this to >>happen. Millions of naturally fertilized eggs never develop into a human. >> >>If you truly believed in your argument, then you would be disgusted with your >>cousins 'murderous' behavior. Yet, you rejoice. You can't have it both ways. >> >>Dan >> >>---- >>Jim Lubin >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://makoa.org/jim >>disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org >> >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 4/7/2007 10:57 >>PM >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 4/7/2007 10:57 >>PM
