Thank you Ilari,

We'll split the odd octet, if need be. In an hour or two you should see an
updated PR that reflects what I think you're recommending.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:31 PM Ilari Liusvaara <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:54:22AM -0800, Martin Duke wrote:
> > Adding the QUIC WG and removing the Sec ADs.
> >
> > Ilari, I would like your input on the questions below.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 3:50 PM Martin Duke <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the review. I've made an attempt to capture this
> conversation
> > > in a PR:
> > > https://github.com/quicwg/load-balancers/pull/146
> > > Please take a look.
>
> That construction can be pretty unbalenced, and I do not know if 4
> rounds is sufficient in that case.
>
> > > Some questions from earlier in the thread:
> > > (1) Is it alright if the server ID and nonce are of very different
> > > lengths, so that the "split" is nowhere near even? Or should we just
> take
> > > exactly half the octets even though they represent different
> information?
>
> I tried to look at security of unbalanced Feistel ciphers. One paper I
> found stated that the general case is open problem. There might be later
> paper that solved the case, but I did not see one.
>
> The result that four rounds is sufficient (given good enough PRF) only
> hold for balanced case. Unbalanced casese can require more rounds. And
> they definitely do once things get highly unbalanced.
>
> And every octet should avalanche to every octet right (that would
> certainly happen with block cipher)? So informations being different
> does not matter.
>
> One of the issues with always balancing it is that if number of octets
> is odd, one of the octets gets split, with 4 bits ending up on one side
> and 4 to the other.
>
> > > (2) Does this have similar security properties to a normal block cipher
> > > with 16 bytes of entropy?
>
> Four round balanced Feistel with good enough PRF is normal block cipher.
>
> AES is not a PRF, but I would expect it to behave very close to one if
> number of samples available is not huge. E.g., trivial collision-
> checking requires on order of 2^64 samples.
>
>
> -Ilari
>

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