Harold and list, I've changed a few things since the last time so I'm really starting from scratch.
I start with bbmale <- read.csv("c:\\eabl\\2004\\feathers\\male_feathers2.csv", header=TRUE) box <-factor(box) chick <- factor(chick) Here's a sample of the data box,chick,julian,cltchsz,mrtot,cuv,cblue,purbank,purban2,purban1,pgrassk,pgrass2,pgrass1,grassdist,grasspatchk 1,2,141,2,21.72290152,0.305723811,0.327178868,0.003813435,0.02684564,0.06896552,0.3282487,0.6845638,0.7586207,0,3.73 4,1,164,4,18.87699007,0.281863299,0.310935559,0.06072162,0.2080537,0.06896552,0.01936052,0,0,323.1099,0.2284615 4,2,164,4,19.64359348,0.294117388,0.316049817,0.06072162,0.2080537,0.06896552,0.01936052,0,0,323.1099,0.2284615 7,1,118,4,13.48699876,0.303649408,0.31765218,0.3807568,0.4362416,0.6896552,0.06864183,0.03355705,0,94.86833,0.468 12,1,180,4,21.42196378,0.289731361,0.317562294,0.09238011,0.1342282,0,0.2430127,0.8322148,1,0,1.199032 12,2,180,4,18.79487905,0.286052077,0.316367349,0.09238011,0.1342282,0,0.2430127,0.8322148,1,0,1.199032 12,3,180,4,12.83127682,0.260197475,0.292636914,0.09238011,0.1342282,0,0.2430127,0.8322148,1,0,1.199032 15,1,138,4,20.07161467,0.287632782,0.318671887,0.07046477,0.03355705,0.03448276,0.2755622,0.6577181,0.8275862,0,1.503818 15,2,138,4,17.61146256,0.305581768,0.315848051,0.07046477,0.03355705,0.03448276,0.2755622,0.6577181,0.8275862,0,1.503818 15,3,138,4,20.36397134,0.271795667,0.30539683,0.07046477,0.03355705,0.03448276,0.2755622,0.6577181,0.8275862,0,1.503818 15,4,138,4,20.81940158,0.269468041,0.304160648,0.07046477,0.03355705,0.03448276,0.2755622,0.6577181,0.8275862,0,1.503818 As you can see I have multiple boxes (> 70). Sometimes I have multiple chicks per box each having their own response to mrtot, cuv, and cblue but the same landscape variables for that box. Chick number is randomly assigned and is not an effect I'm interested in. I'm really not interested in the box effect either. I would like to know if landscape affects the color of chicks (which may be tied into chick health/physiology). We also know that chicks get bluer as the season progresses and that clutch size (cltchsz) has an effect so I'm including that as covariates. Hopefully, this clears things up a bit. I do have the MASS and MEMS (Pineiro's) texts in hand. Many thanks, Jeff ______________________________________________ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.