Hi Jari, 




Thanks so much for the answer. I can see now I have confused the 
relationship between the vectors plotted from envfit and the ordination 
plot. 





I thought the length of the blue vector arrows was an indication of the 
influence a species had on the nMDS plot. So I assumed the fact that all
 4 species had similar vector lengths, all 4 species had a similar 
impact on the plot. 





After reviewing your answer, I can see the above assumption is flawed. 
But if the magnitude of a species vector (blue arrow) does not equate to
 a species's importance, can you explain what kind of info I can take 
away from this kind of vector plot? 





Thanks again for your help, it is greatly appreciated. 

> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [R-sig-eco] How does abundance effect output of vegan metaMDS
> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:01:52 +0000
> 
> Dear Vindoggy,
> 
> I wondered how do you *know* that species three is influential. Your analysis 
> shows that it is linearly well explained by the ordination, but it does *not* 
> show that the species influences the ordination. 
> 
> We can study the influence of a species by seeing how much the result will 
> change if we remove the species: removal of an influential species will 
> change the result much. We can assess the change in ordination using the 
> residual sum of squares of Procrustes ordination where we compare results of 
> full data to results when we remove one species. The following continues from 
> your analysis where you had the ordination result 'mds':
> 
> impo <- numeric(4)
> for(i in 1:4) impo[i] <- procrustes(mds, metaMDS(DF[,-i]))$ss
> 
> This gives us importance values:
> 
> impo
> # [1] 0.13510647 0.05256924 0.00666738 0.03128587
> 
> Third value is lowest. This means that removing of species 3 hardly 
> influences the results, and the species is not influential. By far the most 
> important species is number 1.
> 
> Cheers, Jari Oksanen
> 
> On 19/02/2014, at 06:10 AM, Vindoggy ! wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > I have a data set for benthic cover made up of 4 species, over 9 years. I 
> > have been using the vegan package to create nMDS plots for this data, but 
> > am a little confused by some of my results.
> > 
> > 
> > Here is the data for 4 species (Sp 1-4) over the course of 9 years
> > 
> > 
> > Sp1<-c(27.76 ,25.44, 34.72, 41.28, 44.00, 31.28, 32.00, 38.72, 40.40)
> > Sp2<-c(36.72, 40.08, 36.96, 26.40, 34.40, 33.28, 31.28, 22.72, 14.00)
> > Sp3<-c(0.16, 0.08, 0.32, 1.28, 1.76, 1.84, 2.24, 4.40, 1.76)
> > Sp4<-c( 1.12,  2.24,  4.00 , 2.56,  4.40,  8.96, 12.24, 13.60, 23.36)
> > 
> > DF<-data.frame(Sp1,Sp2,Sp3,Sp4)
> > 
> > row.names(DF)<-c(2006:2014)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > At first I was advised to transform my data to relative abundance like so:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > DF<- decostand(DF, method='total')
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > set.seed(999)
> > mds<- metaMDS(DF, dist='bray',trymax=99)
> > 
> > envfitHab<-envfit(mds, DF,perm=999)
> > 
> > plot(mds,display='sites',type='t')
> > 
> > plot(envfitHab)
> > 
> > envfitHab
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > But I found that Species 3 seemed to be having a greater impact on the plot 
> > (as I judged by looking at the blue vectors, p values, and scores data) 
> > than I would have gathered. Considering Sp3 has a relatively low abundance 
> > and does not change much over time, I would not expect it to influence the 
> > dissimilarity matrix much at all. And Sp1, which has a higher abundance and 
> > changes significantly over time, seems to have a much smaller impact and 
> > larger p value.
> > 
> > I came to the conclusion that I should not be using relative abundance 
> > data, as I do care about total abundance. So I gave up on decostand and 
> > used raw abundance data instead. I was surprised to find that Sp3 played a 
> > similar if  even larger role in impacting the plot. Which runs 
> > counterintuitive to my (admittedly limited) understanding of nMDS. 
> > 
> > So my question is why is a species with low abundance that does not vary 
> > much from year to year impacting my nMDS plot so much?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >                                       
> >     [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > R-sig-ecology mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-ecology
> 
                                          
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