Ernie:
"the Christian Church prior to Constantine. Where believers earned moral authority over generations by their virtue and joy amidst suffering. " Huh? That view may sound good in theory but how much did it have to do with the real world? The problem for me is that there is some truth to that picture. The problem for you is that there only is some truth to that picture. Also, in what way is that view relevant to sodomy? When Paul wrote, what he was referring to were the laws of Augustus in which homosexuality was, in fact, publishable by death. So, as in 1950s America or earlier eras, homosexuality was a crime and the state did the punishing. Christians were satisfied with this system which, of course, people like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson helped create. Or aren't you all that keen on Washington and Jefferson on the issue of sodomy? I'm not sure what you are recommending by way of public policy. In fact, I don't see where you are proposing public policy at all, simply a religious preference. Maybe it would work if we all lived in Amish communities or Evangelical equivalents, but other than that I don't see where your suggestion is very practical. Maybe you can explain. What I am proposing is a return to a system that did work and work well and even if it might have been nice if everyone was an Evangelical that was not a requirement. It worked for Catholics, Jews, liberal Christians, Atheists, Confucians and Buddhists, and so forth. Seems to me this is a major weakness in your philosophy, unless everyone converts to Evangelical Christianity it is a free for all -which is what we now have and it is a horrible mess. How about public policy that is not based on an imperative for everyone to convert to Evangelical faith? Paul was quite willing to work within the system created by Caesar Augustus. I am quite willing to work within the system we had under Dwight D Eisenhower. If the answer you have for others depends on their conversion to Evangelical faith I simply don't see where it gets you anywhere. What do you recommend for a society that not only is pluralistic but keeps getting more pluralistic? Maybe I'd like it if lots of people converted to 'Assyrian Orthodoxy' but I am under no illusion that this is in the cards any time in the near future. If you think there will be a great Evangelical revival that solves all problems, lots of luck with that. What about public policy? Billy ________________________________ From: Centroids <drer...@radicalcentrism.org> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 3:03 PM To: RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com Cc: Billy Rojas Subject: Re: [RC] Re: war on homosexuality [ RC ] Lessons in history The Eisenhower years So, your ideal is a world of social conformity enforced by the implicit threat of violence, without having to actually get your hands dirty by carrying it out? Or did I miss something? My preferred ideal is much more explicitly bloody: the Christian Church prior to Constantine. Where believers earned moral authority over generations by their virtue and joy amidst suffering. I’m no fan of persecution; but I hate lazy self-deceiving self-righteousness even more. The goal now is to figure out how to achieve maximum virtue with a minimum of suffering and E On Feb 3, 2019, at 13:12, Billy Rojas <1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com<mailto:1billyro...@buglephilosophy.com>> wrote: Ernie: Very good questions. But the best answer isn't point-by-point but to tell you what model of the future I am working with: Basically, for this issue, not other issues, the 1950s. The place is America. For now let me defer discussion of how Muslim mobs deal with things. Although maybe they have one thing right in terms of a deterrence effect. Back long before the current war, the Yemenis had a system in place that seemed to work well. Anyone caught in a homosexual act was taken for a plane ride. Crowds would gather below. Then the homosexual would be allowed to exit the plane -at 20,000 feet. No need for a parachute because that would spoil the fun. This is not what I have in mind, but just sayin'... The 1950s in the USA were the Eisenhower years. Homosexuality was illegal everywhere. No homosexuals employed by the FBI or CIA. No homosexuals employed as teachers. Generally it was a disgrace to be a homosexual, it was socially stigmatized. While there had been some lessening of legal penalty for homosexuality over the years, here in Oregon it still was a capital offense. The ACLU was opposed to toleration of homosexuality, the APA classified homosexuality as mental illness even as therapies to cure the illness were being developed. And so forth. You get the picture. And we had social stability, Hollywood was not a moral cesspool, and religion flourished as never before in US history -at least since the Great Awakening. OK, got a better model for the future? Billy ________________________________ From: radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com<mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com> <radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com<mailto:radicalcentrism@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Centroids <drer...@radicalcentrism.org<mailto:drer...@radicalcentrism.org>> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 12:40 PM To: RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com<mailto:RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Cc: Billy Rojas Subject: war on homosexuality Re: [RC] Lessons in Practical Philosophy #2 Hi Billy, > There is no excuse at all for toleration of homosexuals or of homosexuality. I assume you mean intellectual toleration? How do you feel about hate speech against homosexuals? What about a Muslim preacher telling an angry mob that specific homosexuals in their community should be stoned? These are non-rhetorical questions. I am trying to understand what level of war you are hoping for... 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