some rambling thoughts... Will a computer science degree make you a better programmer? Possibly, possibly not. How good are you now?
You’ve posted to the ruby on rails community. The ruby language is not well supported in academia so there will probably be a natural bias here of self-taught programmers. I think the term Computer Science is not right. Modern commercial programming has very little science in it. Marketing is much more scientific than CS - good marketers actually use the scientific method - aim, method, results, conclusion - every day. ———————— If you are looking for work, as Michael has indicated the larger companies tend to require it. A degree can at least stop your CV from being binned in the first cull. Larger companies have a long term view on hiring, they will invest in their staff. They won’t expect you to have studied what you would use in their environment. You will get technology, HR and management training. The degree requirement here is not really about your technical skills, but your intellect, interest, personality, and risk reduction for the company - maverick personalities can be quite disruptive. Smaller companies will be much more flexible. They can’t afford to take the longer term view and will be much more interested in what you can prove you can do now. You probably much training other than learning on the job and what you teach yourself. Those were generalisation - there will, of course, be exceptions. My story - I don’t have a degree. I spent my late teens and early 20’s chasing girls and trying to make it in the music business (failing badly at both). After hacking on music tech, I discovered that I love programming and building things that solve problems. Since I’ve started 3 companies based on tech I’ve built. Sold one for a rather tidy sum, and sold the other two for not much. I’m now working on my fourth startup. Investors or potential acquirer's have not asked if I have degree. Having interviewed many, many people and hired around 80'ish programmers and technical staff over the last 20 years. I can’t say that I can spot a difference, nor have I seen any difference in performance. If you love what you do, you get better and it shows. Now I don’t do any big data or algorithmic stuff, so it might matter there. I have interviewed at large companies and the not having a degree thing has definitely been an issue. Soooooo…. Without knowing your circumstance, nor career ambitions... If you have the time, a Computer Science degree will usually help your career in the long term purely in terms of opportunities. Just don’t expect to ever use much of it, nor for it to be particularly about science. If you want to work with Big Data [ie: Google, Facebook, or the like], then a degree will help as long you take the right subjects. What may help more is getting involved in the Open Source projects that they use and start contributing. Over time you will show the people who are doing the hiring what you can do. If you find something you like doing, keep doing it, you will probably do it better than most. Spend your time wisely and you will make your own opportunities [I think I’ve just become my dad]. rgds, - matt. ps. as an aside, I also run a small private hedge fund and there is no identifiable correlation between education levels and returns in this industry either. What makes a good investor is passion, commitment, hard work, and experience. Some how these people are always on the right side of luck. > On 2 Sep 2015, at 2:40 PM, Michael Pearson <mipear...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > This is going to be a fun thread. > > Yes, it will make you a better programmer (but it can also make you a worse > one). > > No, if you're not sure about it and you don't think the Uni environment is > the best way for you to learn, you probably shouldn't get one. > > Disclaimer: I'm a high school, then TAFE dropout who's been working full time > in IT since 2000. > > As an employee I've only found not having a degree matters when applying for > jobs at enterprise companies (eg NAB, BAE, IBM, anything with a name you can > easily condense down to three letters) > > As an employer it's a signal but never a requirement. The further back in a > person's career, the weaker the signal is: it's not even considered for a > senior applicant. A junior without a degree should have industry experience, > open source contributions or other self-directed work to back their > application. A junior with a degree, however, should have something that > proves that they can work outside of a university study structure and are > willing to learn without needing to be force-fed. > > If you want to make cool things for the web or phones, you don't need a > degree, and if Uni isn't your thing then there are better ways to spend four > years. > > Regards, > Michael. > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 2:21 PM, <c...@bitgirl101.com > <mailto:c...@bitgirl101.com>> wrote: > I have been a dev for about a year now and I learnt to code at TAFE and > through various community events. For a while now I have been considering > whether or not I should get a degree. I know great programmers that have CS > Degrees and I know great programmers that don't. I am concerned about the > time and monetary commitment that a degree entails and I am also not sure if > this method of learning would be best for me. I have also heard that a lot of > the topics covered by some courses are rarely ever used in the industry. I > would really love to know what the communities thoughts are on this issue > from personal experience and from a hiring perspective as well. > > Will a Computer Science Degree make me a better programmer? If so does anyone > have any advice on selecting a university or a course in Sydney? > > Thanks in advance > > Catherine > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com > <mailto:rails-oceania@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania > <http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > -- > Michael Pearson > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com > <mailto:rails-oceania@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania > <http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > On 2 Sep 2015, at 2:55 PM, David Parry <david.pa...@suranyami.com> wrote: > > >> On 2 Sep 2015, at 2:21 pm, c...@bitgirl101.com wrote: >> For a while now I have been considering whether or not I should get a >> degree. I know great programmers that have CS Degrees and I know great >> programmers that don’t. > > I concur with this. > > >> I am concerned about the time and monetary commitment that a degree entails >> and I am also not sure if this method of learning would be best for me. > > I certainly enjoyed my time studying CS at university, but must admit, the > coding I learnt there was completely useless to me when I started working on > real projects. > > The best stuff that a university course will give you is rigour in some of > the non-CS things: foundations of CS, maths, writing, deadlines, > collaborating. > > >> I have also heard that a lot of the topics covered by some courses are >> rarely ever used in the industry. > > A lot of courses are still heavily biased towards either Java or C-based > system-level coding. That’s great if that’s what you want to do, but tough > luck otherwise. > > The single most influential skills you can use to become a great coder is > probably building real projects using Test Driven Development. (IMHO) > If the course you’re looking at does that, go for it. > > Otherwise, dive into real projects: > > * Start a small project that solves a real problem for someone, code it, > deploy it to Heroku on a free account. > * Go to the DevHub meetups. > * Get an internship at a dev company. > * Try forking and fixing some issues in open source projects on GitHub. > * Get involved in some Hackathons. > > You may want to get a degree after some time, if you work out you want to > specialise in something specific (e.g. Machine learning, Game design, etc.). > That’ll be a lot easier if you’ve got some experience and some money to pay > for it. > > >> I would really love to know what the communities thoughts are on this issue >> from personal experience and from a hiring perspective as well. > > It’s almost a cliche now, but I prefer candidates that have an active GitHub > account. The code doesn’t have to be perfect, but enthusiasm counts too. > > >> Will a Computer Science Degree make me a better programmer? > > Yes, but not necessarily in all the ways that matter when you get a job. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
