[RBASE-L] - Re: Code copywrite

[Ted Lienhard]

For what it's worth, this is how I have handled this issue:   A.  For-pay customer-specific proprietary/custom applications - The customer retains the rights to the code if they specifically request that, AND especially if they are paying me on a time and materials basis (hourly rate); otherwise, I retain the rights.  Obviously, if they have the use of the application, they are not damaged by not having the rights to secondarily distribute or modify the code...in fact, it may keep them from damaging their data!  In practical terms, I don't find any real possibility of re-selling their finished application; it must be re-written and the code re-used in a second client's app...which is usually not an issue for either client!  So...you get the benefit of their code, without the benefit of full rights to the "finished product", which belongs to the client who specifies that they want to "own" it.  An example of this would be using one of Razzak's forms from the SAT, which he says we may use any way we want to.  If I use it in ten applications for ten clients, I am not breaking any laws or being unethical...just working smart.   Having said all that, a national client of mine retained the rights, requested (and received) current copies of the application in a file (remember .app's?) and on paper.  That worked fine for many years...until one of the officers decided to have one of his "experts" examine the code.  Then I started getting all sorts of questions about "why this, why that" from a person that did not know the function of the organization AND did not know RBase!  None of the "expert's" questions turned up anything that needed to be changed; nothing was lacking, either in code or procedurally.   Nothing evil came of it initially, but the questions planted by the "expert" began to slowly corrode my credibility with the client.  That relationship ended after more than 12 years of very enjoyable, very healthy, mutually beneficial work.  The client, for all practical purposes, no longer exists...and I am still here!  This is the downside of a client (or their "experts") looking at code they do not understand, written in RBase which "can't be that good".  Of course, RBase is the absolute BEST there is, but ignorance is bliss...and an expert is any guy 100 miles from home with a briefcase!  ("Beware the Pox, Beware the Ides, Beware the man with the color slides!")   B.  For-Free/Donated customer-specific proprietary/custom applications - I retain all rights to these applications, including reuse of code in other customers' applications for profit!    C.  For-Sale general software - My rights to applications developed for sale to multiple users are completely mine; I retain all rights.  From what I gathered from the copyright info from the US government, this sort of software cannot be copyrighted through the US government UNTIL the first sale.  However, the intellectual property rights exist before that.  The short answer here:  guard your code!   Hope that sheds some light on all this!   Best Regards, Ted       Ted Lienhard CNE NCT Golden Valley Consulting >>> paul<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6/19/2008 7:37 AM >>> There is similar verbiage available in any R&D Shop.  I wish I had a recent copy I would supply it.   In short while you may come up with the idea and they have paid for it, it then allows both parties to have the same rights.  But limited.  Also it then goes into the company side and limits the amount of knowledge you transfer (Discloser Agreement) that it also has time limits.  Mine are all 5 year agreements that renew any time funds are transferred from one party to the next.  (Real short -  really it is about 5 pages)   I use a discloser agreement in many ways.  I like the fact it protects both sides.           So,  good luck and by all means should you need to contact me,  please do so.         Paul       Not funny, but I am in the process of HUNTING a person down as we speak that has not returned a computer / software / equipment.  He called and gave notice and that was the last I heard from him,  the economy is that bad here in Michigan.  I do not believe he has stolen any information from it.  But .....         Perhaps it might be the reason I like the encrypt and compiled w/expiration.  Now for           From: rbase-l@rbase.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:56 AM To: RBASE-L Mailing List Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: Code copywrite   My app is different but this might work.   How about telling that you own the copyright but they have full rights to use / modify it for their own use but they can't take your code and start selling the app or selling your code.   Marc         ----- Original Message ----- From: jan johansen To: RBASE-L Mailing List Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: [RBASE-L] - Code copywrite   Group,   Looking for some insights from people. I recently placed a copy of 7.6 on my clients server so they would feel better about "if something happened to me" someone else could pick up the pieces.   They found what I have been placing in my rmd's at the top: -- Title:        PurchaseRecon.rmd -- Comment:      replaces old reconpur.cmd -- Created:      Sep 2007 -- Author:       Jan D. Johansen -- Copyright © 2007 Dane Data Systems -- Last Update -- Uses Forms: PurchReconSelect,reconpur   Now they are upset because they thought they owned the code. In this case the code is somewhat hybrid. The original code was in 4.5 ++ (I think) and I have "borrowed" sections of the original code during the upgrade. I have found traces of at least 3 other people in the original. Of course I have rewritten sections and supplanted with my own and borrowed from other people on the list.   The header was placed mainly as an afterthought in the rmd's without much thought to what it implied.   So now - who owns the code? Is it the intellectual property of the developer or since the client pays you for your services is it his?   I know I should have spelled this out in an agreement but didn't think I would run into anything like this (there I go thinking again).   Any thoughts/comments greatly appreciated in advance (I'm offline for about 10 hours after I hit the send).   Jan