I'm in Northern Ca.  I guess the summer was a bit dryer than 
normal, but all together this pattern isn't unusual. I've just become 
a sunshine addict since moving here and only grudgingly accept 
the arrival of bad weather. Ours is an operating "ranch"... but here a 
ranch is a place where you have to throw a rock pretty hard to hit 
your neighbor's house <g>, so it sounds like more than it is.

I once thought of intravenous coffee, but never "piddle packs"... I 
think my wife would object :-o . 

> think we've all pretty much agreed that simply going on total 
dollars
> of gross profit, while simple (simplistic?) may not be a good 
measure
> of performance either. 

Absolutely not. That's what good managers are for, to let their 
people know if they're falling shy in some aspect of their 
performance, or, what they're doing right. I just think it's folly to try 
and aggregate all the aspects of profitability into a single number 
by which to evaluate a salesperson.

Thank you for your indulgence on a rainy, windy day :)

Ben Petersen



On 8 Nov 2002, at 12:53, J. Stephen Wills wrote:

> Well, I actually agree w/you about "life", even if it means that I'm
> sorry 'bout the drought and now the mud.  Didn't some parts of Nevada
> get around 6 inches ; is that where you are?  This is cotton territory
> and, while we've had good rainfall this year, and last, I think, we
> also had record monthly rainfalls f/much of the area in both SEP and
> OCT, which are usually quite dry and, therefore, the time to defoliate
> and pick.  I'm not a grower and haven't even planted any ornamental
> brown or green since they've been trying to eradicate the boll weevil
> ...
> 
> Anyway, I didn't mention real life, much less as part of a "balanced
> scorecard" approach to performance measurement.  And, I'd never
> suggest that some set of (possibly arbitrary and even irrelevant)
> numbers, alone, would be a reliable metric.  Lots of things look
> "good" on paper, but it still takes 9 months to make a baby, no matter
> how many women are put on the project (w/apologies to Frederick
> Brooks, "The Mythical Man-Month").  Heck, I've got ideas about
> improving programmer productivity by making mandatory the use of
> intravenous feeding tubes and "piddle packs" - the numbers look great
> on paper, but, for some strange reason, nobody has given me any
> "buy-in" ...
> 
> Well, what I intimated previously w/re: NPV would probably be
> overkill, especially given limited scales of most organizations and
> their available resources, especially time and labor.  However, I
> think we've all pretty much agreed that simply going on total dollars
> of gross profit, while simple (simplistic?) may not be a good measure
> of performance either.  I'm still ruminating (at my desk, not the
> ranch) on this and no doubt will add more later.
> 
> In the meanwhile, feel free to "take it out" on me. ;-)
> 
> Later,
> Steve in Memphis
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Petersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 4:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Statistics experts needed
> 
> 
> > Steve,
> >
> > It's raining here.  Our ranch has turned to mud (hasn't rained since
> > May and our soils don't handle it well).  So I thought I'd take it
> > out on you <g, just kidding>.
> >
> > IMHO, here's the problem w/ Net Present Value calculations
> > involving people and organizations. They are just too variable. If
> > you were working with a bond portfolio, or some other kind of paper,
> > it's the only way to go. Even if you were trying to evaluate a
> > company's options as to future operations over an extended period of
> > time, wanting the best guess as to best profitabililty, OK. But
> > trying to apply that logic to individuals or small groups doesn't
> > work because "life happens" to everybody. And the small yield
> > differences from NPV calcs would simply be overwhelmed by babies
> > being born, parents dieing, alcohol, elicit affairs and (especially
> > for salesreps) burnout.
> >
> > Of course, the return of double digit bond yields could change
> > things completely <g>.
> >
> > Ben Petersen
> >
> >
> > On 8 Nov 2002, at 11:01, J. Stephen Wills wrote:
> >
> > > Okay, gang, this one's killin' me, and I like it.  So, I'm gonna'
> > > try to put my MBA to use here.  I've just cracked the book(s) and
> > > will report more later, as I proceed, but, at the moment, I'd
> > > suggest taking a peek at "excess present-value index", or
> > > profitability index.
> > >  If all the costs of sales as well as revenue streams/inflows can
> > >  be
> > > identified, quantified, and dated, then the Net Present Value of
> > > the profit can be determined.  This appears to be typically
> > > applied to project initiatives rather than the efforts of the
> > > individual members of the sales team.
> > >
> > > However, if a salesperson's profit margin varies, their customers
> > > time-to-pay (a form of Days Sales Outstanding per Salesperson)
> > > varies, their Book-To-Bill numbers vary (here, inventory carrying
> > > costs would be factored in), as well as, potentially, a number of
> > > other factors that can have a measurable impact on "the bottom
> > > line", then the monetary worth to the firm of each salesperson's
> > > efforts will also vary.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm going to continue looking into this and will be back
> > > to the topic as soon as I have more to share.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Steve in Memphis
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "tellef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:55 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Statistics experts needed
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ben:
> > > >
> > > > >The simplest thing I can think of is to use a multiplier that
> > > > >amplifies the % profit and still consider the $profit: SP1 =
> > > > >(10,000*.4)+(.4*1,500)) = 4600 SP2 = (10,000*.4)+(.4*150)) =
> > > > >4060 SP3 = (10,000*.38)+(.38*2000)) = 4560
> > > >
> > > > I see the profit% in there (the .4 and the .38), and I see the
> > > > profit$ in there (1500,150,2000).  What does the '10,000'
> > > > represent? Just a constant number?  Your formula seems to work!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom:
> > > >
> > > > >By that I mean to  take the $sales and the percent of
> > > > >profit, drop the decimal from the percentage and multiply the
> > > > >two. While
> > > > the
> > > > >number has no real meaning, it would sort them such that your
> > > > >example
> > > > would
> > > > >rank them as 1-60000, 2-6000, 3-76000, 4-57000
> > > >
> > > > Your way of calculating gives salesman3 the edge, while Ben's
> > > > gives salesman1 the edge.  I think I'll take both solutions to
> > > > the client and ask them which person, in their opinion, they
> > > > would want to see 'on top'.  Then maybe I'll use that formula!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Larry:
> > > >
> > > > >Assign each salesperson a rank from 1 to X (where X is the
> > > > >number of salespeople) according to total dollar profit. 
> > > > >Assign them a separate
> > > > rank
> > > > >according to percentage profit.  Add the two ranks together,
> > > > >and print
> > > > your
> > > > >list in ascending order of combined rank. <
> > > >
> > > > That might work.  I'll have to run some numbers through on the
> > > > actual data and see if it represents that they would want to
> > > > see.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >So, my friend, I would not worry too much.  Go to sleep and
> > > > >know that whatever your solution, most likely they will not be
> > > > >happy. Because you
> > > > are
> > > > >trying to quantify the unquantifiable.
> > > >
> > > > That's pretty funny, Enrique.  True, but funny.  Loved reading
> > > > your reply.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks everyone!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Karen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ================================================
> > > > TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES:
> > > > Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l
> > > > ================================================
> > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the message body, put just two words:
> > > > UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l
> > > > ================================================ TO SEARCH
> > > > ARCHIVES: http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
> > >
> > > ================================================
> > > TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES:
> > > Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l
> > > ================================================
> > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l
> > > ================================================ TO SEARCH
> > > ARCHIVES: http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> > ================================================
> > TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES:
> > Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l
> > ================================================
> > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l
> > ================================================ TO SEARCH ARCHIVES:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
> 
> ================================================
> TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES:
> Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l
> ================================================
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In
> the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l
> ================================================ TO SEARCH ARCHIVES:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
> 


================================================
TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES:
Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l
================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l
================================================
TO SEARCH ARCHIVES:
http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/

Reply via email to