Let us all just try to be a little more open minded. There is a huge difference in saying I don't like a certain bicycle company because... and saying I like all bicycles because...
Try to be positive cyclists and embrace the activity in its entirety. I guess I thought that you all being cyclists that you liked rivendell and bicycling overall. So, my initial response to your use of the word "intolerant," Scott, should have been: Yes. People are expressing an intolerance in this thread. That is a good thing. I am intolerant of mass produced beer, whisky from anywhere but Islay, bikes made of materials that fail without warning, companies that objectify their customers and see them more as dollars than as people, spoiled milk, rotten eggs, and a whole lot of other things. You keep expressing intolerance for intolerances expressed in this thread as disappointment in the group and in the people. To me, that says a lot about you and very little about the group or the people in this thread. With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote: > > Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company doesn't > even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly exercises > intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing definitions. > For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is beautifully > expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen: > > “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance > that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance > applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, > intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as > foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the > laboratory. > > Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we > must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to > rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is > the foundation of all stability.” > > > Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of > customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word > that means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of > qualities in a product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of > the virtue of the free market. > > > With abandon, > > Patrick > > On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote: >> >> Deacon, >> You might want to read some of XXXX and others posts. >> >> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and >> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED >> their offerings. >> >> How tolerant is that? The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly >> with me. >> >> Choice is a good thing. >> Options are good things. >> >> I expected more from this list. >> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick" <lamon...@mac.com> wrote: >> >>> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of >>> the words is intolerant or single-minded. >>> >>> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both >>> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was >>> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my >>> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything >>> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and >>> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying >>> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine." >>> >>> With abandon, >>> Patrick >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote: >>>> >>>> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the >>>> type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering >>>> consumers a choice. >>>> >>>> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities >>>> that some of you preach on about. >>>> >>>> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you >>>> want? But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type >>>> of bike that someone else may want? >>>> >>>> Wow. It's no wonder the reputation garnered here. >>>> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" < >>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about >>>>> snobbery or proselytizing, not about anti this or that, not about who >>>>> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's >>>>> qualifications for being on RBW. If you have actually read what I wrote >>>>> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay >>>>> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: >>>>> >>>>> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some >>>>> Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased >>>>> a >>>>> bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now >>>>> offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this >>>>> approach >>>>> toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to >>>>> be. Not in the slightest. >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like >>>>>> swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like >>>>>> nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever, >>>>>> >>>>>> But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all >>>>>> . Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause". >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and >>>>>>> "giving customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> such a niche company is that the majority of people shopping for >>>>>>> bicycles >>>>>>> are at the mercy of the industry, which has a vested interest in pushing >>>>>>> certain types of bicycles. And if you don't get that, I am truly puzzled >>>>>>> why you are on this list. (Note that none of this means I think people >>>>>>> should only ride Rivendells, or that carbon sucks, or that people cannot >>>>>>> have fun on pro style racing bicycles. It's not about that per se.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:40:55 AM UTC-4, RJM wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is a lot of negativity towards this company here which made >>>>>>>> me check the link so I can understand why, and after I still don't get >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of this company before but I understand why they >>>>>>>> are making this pro line...not a lot of companies cater to the young >>>>>>>> racer >>>>>>>> and offer equipment for that. They are filling a market. If you don't >>>>>>>> believe that kids that young are racing then you aren't attending many >>>>>>>> races. Just this past weekend I worked a local mountain bike race day >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> there was a kid class, and they were competitive and having fun at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time riding a smaller portion of the same trail that the adults rode >>>>>>>> on. >>>>>>>> Very capable kids. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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