Thanks Steve. I'm not seeing the ramped/pinned ring on the Rene Herse website. Also, are your index or friction shifting? Would it matter?
Cheers, John On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 9:02:45 AM UTC+5:45, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > As I may have indicated in this discussion, I used the Herse triple with > non-ramped and pinned rings for 1,000 miles before the experiment. > Shifting was fine. Better than I'd ever experienced with any Shimano > ramped and pinned rings. Good enough I really did not believe any > meaningful improvement was possible. > > And then I tried the Herse ramped and pinned ring, and I was simply > astonished. > On 1/23/20 9:52 PM, John Rinker wrote: > > Thanks Jeremy. I appreciate the input from your experience. I guess my > question now is how critical the ramps and pins will be to smooth shifting > with this range of rings and a triple derailleur. That's the beauty of > tinkering with bikes- experiment and iterate. > > Cheers, > John > > On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 2:43:15 AM UTC+5:45, Jeremy Till wrote: >> >> As Steve's experience suggests, I think that 48-36-24 is close enough to >> the chainring gaps on "standard" triple cranks that you should have no >> problem running a road or mountain triple. I run exactly those chainrings >> on a Sugino XD crank on my Rambouillet, and it shifts perfectly with a >> 10-spd era Shimano 105 triple front derailleur (FD-5603, I think) and >> Dura-Ace bar end shifter (friction). >> >> I have another Sugino XD triple with a "half-step + granny" setup, so >> 46-42-26, on my Long Haul Trucker. When I first switched to those rings I >> tried a standard triple front derailleur but didn't even take it out of the >> stand. In the middle chainring especially, the chainring just didn't match >> up with where their derailleur expected the chain to be, and there was >> excessive rubbing. I switched to a double front derailleur and that setup >> has served me well, most optimally with an older Shimano 600 double front >> derailleur with a wide cage and flat plates. >> >> -Jeremy Till >> Sacramento, CA >> >> On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 11:21:19 PM UTC-8, John Rinker wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Steve. First, that's a beautiful bicycle. Wow! Lemme know when >>> you're ready to trade it in ;). >>> >>> I appreciate you sharing your experience, and I'm sure it will help me >>> move forward. Right now I'm running 9-speeds with a Deore rear derailleur >>> and an older XT front triple. I may just try it out with this and keep your >>> suggestion of the Tiagra triple for future reference. I'm assuming the Rene >>> Herse chainrings are not ramped and pinned. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> John >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:37:45 PM UTC+5:45, Steve Palincsar >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> My JP Weigle has a Herse triple. 10 speeds: SRAM PG1070 12-32 >>>> cassette, 24/34/36 crankset, bar end shifters and a Deore XT rear >>>> derailleur. >>>> >>>> Initially it was built with a Campagnolo double front derailleur that >>>> only reluctantly and unreliably shifted to the inner ring, which was then >>>> replaced with a Tiagra double. >>>> >>>> That was OK, and then after a thousand miles (to establish a baseline >>>> for comparison purposes) I took part in an experiment for BQ, replacing >>>> the >>>> outer 46T ring with a ramped and pinned 11 spd 46T outer ring. >>>> >>>> I didn't have high expectations of the ramped and pinned ring. I've >>>> ridden tens of thousands of miles on Shimano XTR M900 triples with ramped >>>> and pinned SG and SGX rings, and although they shift just fine, I found no >>>> magic in the ramps and pins, and the Herse triple shifted better than all >>>> the XTR M900s. >>>> >>>> Also, I started out prejudiced against 11 speed: a bad Spinal Tap joke, >>>> 1 more useless speed provided at the cost of hundred dollar chains and a >>>> three hundred dollar chain tool. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, this was Jan Heine's idea and he's been right so >>>> often in the past flying in the face of conventional wisdom that anything >>>> he suggests automatically gets the benefit of my doubt -- even an 11-speed >>>> ramped and pinned chain ring. >>>> >>>> No idea what they did, but once the shop replaced the outer ring the >>>> Tiagra double no longer would shift to the inner ring at all. I tried >>>> adjusting the yaw and then it would shift briskly to the inner ring but no >>>> longer was reliable on the two outermost rings: sometimes it would >>>> spontaneously shift from the 46T outer to the 34 inner, and every single >>>> rear shift required trimming to avoid rubbing. >>>> >>>> They tried various adjustments and cage bending tricks for an hour >>>> while I watched, all to no avail. Whatever happened when they replaced >>>> the >>>> outer ring certainly screwed up that Tiagra double. >>>> >>>> They replaced it with a *Tiagra FD4603F triple*. This derailleur >>>> appears to be made for compact-sized chain rings. The specification sheet >>>> says it's for a front chain ring difference of 20 teeth or less and a >>>> minimum difference of 11T between the middle and outer chain rings - a >>>> perfect match for my setup. And what a difference it made! >>>> >>>> Shifting was now perfect to all chain rings, and better than anything I >>>> have ever experienced before in 48 years of using triples. Astounding. >>>> Amazing. Incredible. >>>> >>>> Basically, friction shifting in front has in my experience always been >>>> some kind of variation on "The Old Bump and Grind." The original Herse 46 >>>> and 34 shift was very nice -- indeed, I was very doubtful the ramped and >>>> pinned 46T ring would make any difference, since with the original outer >>>> ring shifting was as good as, if not even better than all the ramped and >>>> pinned rings I've used in the past -- but the ramped and pinned 46T ring >>>> changed things very much for the better. >>>> >>>> Instead of hearing the chain grinding across a few teeth to make the >>>> shift -- which was as good as I'd ever experienced of a front shift -- now >>>> I heard a SNAP and the chain instantly jumped between the two outer rings. >>>> >>>> Upshifts from the 34 to the 46 and downshifts from the 46 to the 34 had >>>> taken on the character of an indexed rear shift: no bumping and grinding, >>>> just an instant change. Astounding: four stars weren't enough to describe >>>> it. >>>> >>>> And once the FD4603F triple front derailleur was installed, shifts to >>>> the inner ring became quick and without any hesitation, with ample space >>>> between the front derailleur cage plates so that 8 of the 10 rear >>>> sprockets >>>> can be accommodated without needing to trim the front. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/18/20 12:15 AM, John Rinker wrote: >>>> >>>> Anybody here have experience with Rene Herse triple cranks paired with >>>> a triple front derailleur? >>>> >>>> It is recommended that one use a 'double' front derailleur with a Rene >>>> Herse triple crankset as 'Triple front derailleurs have stepped cages >>>> that work only with specific chainring combinations.' As I will be running >>>> a 48-36-24, this seems close enough to a standard 46-36-24 MTB setup that >>>> a >>>> triple would work. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Palincsar > Alexandria, Virginia > USA > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e8e78ef0-3f5d-49ca-84a9-e5ff8e7f3d5c%40googlegroups.com.
