What an interesting conversation! I had no idea when I originally asked. Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or Patrick, or Rich, or...... anyone else does probably works for them and not just because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.
I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a small garden. All three of them have in common that they use tools as an extension of my body and soul. It's important to me that the tools work seamlessly with my body. My woodworking tool collection includes some that are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new, but each one is a joy to hold and use. I maintain them meticulously. Same goes for my bicycles. I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells. I run a 9 speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high quality parts and keep them in good condition. I'm also constitutionally opposed to a throw away world. (I once brought a twenty five year old microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter) I recently brought a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch replaced. The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this awhile haven't you." and I thought OMG, I've become my father! I run ultegra cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings, White's or TAs. Letting them wear out prematurely is not a good option. I appreciate all the feedback. Thank you all. I think I'm going to give Squirt a try. I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line. Everyone I looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate. The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping. Ouch. Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep for wax. Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day, going down into the cool of the basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad. Michael On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote: > > *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying to > extend the life of chainrings?* > > Michael: > > You've hit on the core question. There are so many different situations > that it's hard to generalize. There is no optimal solution for all > conditions. The questions for each of us should be: > > 1. How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last? If you ride 2,000 > miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of > years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about > cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise. OTH, if you get > many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low, > you can be more casual. The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is > selling will work. > > 2. How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize > drive train life? If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then > some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you. Everyone > needs a hobby. OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off > doing, then the casual spritz works. > > Related considerations: > > 3. Cost of components: 7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains > under $20. Decent chainrings are $25. What's the real value of trying to > squeeze a bit of extra life out these? Are you a student on a tight budget > or retired with plenty of cash? OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain > components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more > money. > > 4. Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or > 10,000 miles? Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work. Higher > mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking > over properly. > > 5. Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out of > a lube job. However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough on > chains et al. E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate. What works in > my climate would be a disaster for me in Deacon Patrick's climate. Wax > doesn't like wet conditions. > > Hope this helps the evaluation process. > > dougP > > > > On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 4:30:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote: >> >> Deacon, how good to connect with you again, even when I think you are >> wrong! At one level you are right. If we are discussing energy lost to >> friction in the drivetrain then nothing makes a difference, wax, chain oil, >> heavy or light oil or even no lube at all. Under all conditions the energy >> loss is vanishingly small. But that's not the issue. The purpose of any >> lube is either to fill the space between two metal parts and thereby >> prevent dirt from entering and prematurely wearing those parts out, and/ or >> the lubricant can flush out microscopic metal particles which also abrade >> the surface. That's why you put a lubricant on a stone before sharpening a >> blade - to flush out metal bits, same as in a car's crank case. The real >> benefit comes not from the lube per say but from keeping the chain clean. >> A dirty chain not only wears itself out much faster but wears out the >> rings and cogs. In a sterile environment a steel roller bearing (AKA a >> chain roller) can move over a piece of 7075 Al. for most of a human >> lifetime w/out wearing it out. Introduce grit and both the gullet and >> sidewalls will be worn away quickly. >> >> So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying to >> extend the life of chainrings? And which process will optimize the >> tradeoff? That's probably a different answer for every rider. I'm tired >> of the answer I've been giving to that question and am looking for a better >> deal, a clean chain with less work. >> >> Here's a research report you might enjoy. >> https://pages.jh.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html >> >> >> blessings, >> michael >> >> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 3:27:05 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote: >>> >>> On the opposite side of the spectrum from wax, I use chain saw oil. One >>> drop per link, whenever the chain begins to talk. I worry not one whit >>> about cleaning it. Works great in all environs, all year long. >>> >>> With abandon, >>> Patrick >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ba4517df-1658-4ec2-9a27-f51f8ee5b5a5%40googlegroups.com.
