Thanks Jim, this is perfect and a nice reading list to boot. Joel
On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 1:24 PM Cyclofiend Jim <cyclofi...@gmail.com> wrote: > This has come up before, and those are interesting threads - so worth > using the search feature for the group - one of the real assets of having > this via the googling-groups... > > There was a spreadsheet posted here - > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit#gid=0 > > There was a thread from back in 2013 - quoted below: > > The _VERY_ rough page for "Generation 1" Rivendell frames is here: > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/ > > There are some Catalog scans (Catalog #5) of the Road Standard, Long Low > and All Rounder > > The Long Low (and Road Standard) begat the Rambouillet > > The All Rounder begat the Atlantis > > As for the the specifics... mmmm.... wow. That's probably a bit of an > essay. > > My opinion is that most of the Rivendell models have been tweaks and > evolutions. One of the driving factors was actually the availability of > certain parts - specifically "real world" reach brakes and large volume, > round profile tires. When the Long Low was around, most of the road tires > were 19, 21 and 23 cm, while the brake reach was extremely limited. So, > there's that. > > The other thing is that I think Grant hones in on what makes each bike > different and then intensifies the ideas - the essence of each design, if > you will. For example, the Rambouillet sits between the Hilsen and the > Roadeo, but probably each is influenced by it. When the Rambouillet came > out, it wasn't common to ramble singletrack and mountain trails on a "road" > bike, but with the increased clearances and larger volume tires, it was > possible. That design really was at the edge of what could be done with > common brake components, and when the Silver dual pivots came out, that > obstacle was removed. Big tires and ample clearance moved the design one > way (Hilsen) and then the idea of running the comfy undercarriage (itself > influenced by working with the 650B/584 tire size), but bringing back the > light responsiveness of the Rambouillet into a more road focused design > gave us the Roadeo. > > If you read back through the early Readers, Grant wrote a lot about this - > trying to maximize his ideas against the realities of what was available. > Sitting here in 2013, it's hard to believe that only 10 years ago it was > about race-driven design. That pretty much no one had heard of larger than > 23 cm road tires, let alone 650B. If you have the time, get the copies of > the early Readers - it's well worth going through them. > > The 2009 Series - which gave rise to the Hillborne was really a refinement > of the Atlantis made by someone other than Toyo. Unfortunately economics > of Japanese crafted frames has been a challenge. I still want to expand > some of the RBW history on the site - but have been pretty busy getting my > VO work up and running for the past year or so. Here are specific "early > model" pages: > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html> > > http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus > <http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus/index.html> > > > It's also interesting to see how the idea of frames begin and where they > end up. The First Bombadil doesn't look at all like the final iteration, > while the Hunqapillar morphed dramatically during conception. > > There's a lot of gaps in what I just wrote, of course. The answer I > always give is that when you are ready to get a bicycle that rides great > everywhere, and can be adapted to your needs, it's time to check out > Rivendell. > > > On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote: >> >> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA >> made. I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for >> the original runs or a bit later runs. I always thought the first not made >> in USA was the MIT Bleriot. >> >> Thanks >> >> Joel >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Pp0kA6k0jNg/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2787e655-a5d2-471f-82a6-08dc6e165289o%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2787e655-a5d2-471f-82a6-08dc6e165289o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ~IMPORTANT~ Note to all~~ EMAIL ETIQUETTE If you forward this email, please highlight and delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address and maybe others. 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