This to clarify my opinion on tubes versus no tubes, from someone who is, oh so very aware of the limitations of tubes (again, pre-sealant, and refusing to use heavy tires, used up the greater part of 2 X 100-boxes of Remas each year).
FWIW, I used (125 gram) tubes in the EL Naches Pass 559 X 42s, each with a half-cup of Airlock sealant, and I was expecting the tires to feel draggy. Not at all; could not tell any difference by seat of pants when I had the NPs converted to tubeless with 2 fl oz of OS. That's with the NP ELs. OTOH, when I briefly* rode 559 X 32 mm Kojaks tubeless, I did feel -- note the word -- an improvement in ease of pedaling (lower rolling resistance) and comfort. So the difference may come down to the type of tire. And second, the Elk Pass tires with sealant in tubes roll at least as well as the NPs do without tubes (and with; as above). >From my own personal experience, and from what I've read onlist and elsewhere, and goatheads apart: for lower pressures and fatter tires, there's no reason not to use a tubeless system and some reasons to do so: lower weight, no pinch flatting if you are prone to that. But for narrow (32 mm and skinnier) tires of the best quality, like the RH ELs, I can't see a reason to use a tubeless system if there are no goatheads and you don't pinch flat. To repeat: *my own experience such as it is is that for very supple tires at least up to 42 mm wide there is no difference in ride quality between tubes and no tubes.* This certainly seems to change for less supple tires. Jan claims that there is no benefit for tubeless for narrower, higher pressure tires, and my experience agrees with his assertion. Goatheads of course change everything. And none of this involves the question of rim choice; there are not many, perhaps not any, road-type tubeless rims in the 559 mm diameter. The value of tubes of course is that, when you get that puncture that sealant will not seal, you have a relatively easy and clean and quick remedy, and I have fixed enough sealant fails, and far more tube fails, roadside, to know the advantage. So absent goatheads, and for very light road tires, and given the availability of 60-70 gram tubes, I believe that tubes are still a very good and even best choice. Patrick "none of this is scientific by any means" Moore * Neither the Kojaks or the rims were tubeless designed, and you could not get a firm bead grip on the rim, leaving only air pressure to hold the beads in place. I rode the setup for ~200 miles and then chickened out. On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 5:32 AM ascpgh <asc....@gmail.com> wrote: > Chrristine, I made the jump with my 650B bike, built around 42mm RH > BabyShoe Pass standard casing tires on Pacenti Brevet rims. My mechanic > said that this size is where the clear decision for tubeless is, based on > ride quality, flatproofness and weight. She said there isn't much of a > question although some circumstances are described where particular riders > may continue to run tubed tires at this size. Mostly because they did > before tubeless and are obstinate. Even without threats like goatheads or > wider, lower pressure tires like Patrick's, my tubeless setup is lighter > and better performing than the 700C x 32mm RH Stampede Pass EL tires with > tubes that I had been riding on my Rivendell Rambouillet. > > I have had no punctures over the past year on my tubeless tires and that > has included many miles on unpaved paths, trails and winter degraded > streets with their usual glass and wire strand debris. I was happy to find > that in use the 650B x 42mm tires plus sealant were not heavy or sluggish > at all, not even for an argument's sake. They contributed to an energetic > feeling the of the whole bike. > > Andy Cheatham > Pittsburgh > > On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 10:09:19 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> Having done it once, it won't be hard in the future. But were it not for >> goatheads, I'd strictly use tubes on road; sealant for road tires seems to >> me to be more complicated than the problem, apart from goatheads. I might >> continue to use tubeless off road simply because tubes for 60 or 70 or 80 >> mm tires are so heavy. >> >> Let us know your solution. And congratulations on the Clem. >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/34d838bf-14c2-4f4d-9491-078f0855ad90n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/34d838bf-14c2-4f4d-9491-078f0855ad90n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguykWj-dM-fRDNDDS26YhXU2Y4t26c%3DxqUPo1u5HFTZ7g%40mail.gmail.com.
