Patrick, Rob mentioned to me the compliance of the fork on his Road custom. How does the fork on your '99 compare to the others, especially the Mathews, since you said mentioned the tires evening things out. Would a smaller tire reduce pneumatic trail? I'll have to draw myself a picture. Is the compliance of the fork blades similar?
Paul in AR On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: > Robert: Lovely bike, well set up. Please post further posts about your > riding experiences. > > Those early/earlier Rivendell road bikes seemed to have a magic > combination of straightline stability and cornering agility and, from what > I read, subsequent models exhibit the same qualities. In addition to 3 Riv > customs, I also owned a first-gen Sam and a 2nd-gen Ram. Both were notable > for that elusive mix of safe sedateness and eager turn-in (tho' I found the > Sam too vague on steep uphills with weight in the rear). > > My 1999 Joe was a weird custom. My first Riv Road custom, early 1995m was > a 26" wheel frame built by Waterford around the original Rivendell All > Rounde, long story, but with angles tightened (for moral uplift) and road > tubing and crown and lugs; frame tout 753 with 531 fork IIRC. It was nice. > Nice as it was, the 1999 Joe Starck was a noticeable improvement; and it > came about like this. My brother gave me a fixed-conversion Schwinn Tempo > in 1997, and I so fell in love with fixed drivetrains that I talked to > Grant about a fixed custom after the manner of the 1995 Riv/Waterford > custom. He said, in effect, "Well, I guess you know what you want", and the > result was the purposely stripped 1999 gofast also built for 26" wheels but > with much longer chainstays (44.5 vs 42.5), and slacker head (72 vs 73, > IIRC) to compensate for the lighter (compared to 700C) 26X 22 mm and 32 mm > wheels. As nice as the 1995 was, the 1999 showed a very distinct in > handling: as quick to turn as you could want, but without even the > vestigial twitch of the 1995 when was shod with 559 X 22 mm Specialized 26 > X 1 Turbos. I rode it for over 15 years with 571/650C Grands Prix and Pro > Race 22 mm tires until Rene Herse put their 28 mm 26" Elk Pass on the > market. > > The 2003 Curt Goodrich Riv Road custom was a derailleur version of the > 1999 Joe, and the 2020 Chauncey Matthews is an idiosyncratic adjustment of > the Curt for less stout tubing, more-or-less integrated fenders and racks, > and accomodation for the shifting bits for a Sturmey Archer medium ratio > "club" 3 speed AM hub.) > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 8:32 PM Robert Dowtin <robert...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I have excitedly waited all week to add to this wonderful thread. Thank >> you, Patrick. So.... Last week I was fortunate enough to pick up nearly an >> identical frame as yours. We believed initially that it was a Road Standard >> that was Waterford made. I was very wrong. It's a Joe Starck w/ Joe Bell >> paint, serial#JS0499 apparently made in February. I finished putting her >> all together and I am not sure what else I can say that you all haven't >> already. Just an amazing bike. I never could have imagined...and the Phil >> Wood hubs...yeah. Speechless. So obviously I happen to be damn close in >> size to whomever had this beauty made originally, it is absolutely >> perfectly my size. Here's a couple of pics I shot today when I got back >> from her maiden voyage. Thanks to everyone that helped out getting this and >> the Quickbeam put together so quickly.[image: rivroad2.jpg][image: >> rivroad3.jpg]. >> On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 9:38:16 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote: >> >>> I've asked myself that, since I've also felt similar if not equal >>> qualities with other bikes. For the ease of rolling/maintaining a gear, I >>> can't say that it is "planing" only because at least 1 of these bikes was >>> rather stout-tubed; another uses thinwall but OS tubing, and I had 1 >>> lightweight 531 racing bike that didn't feel the same way. It's not weight, >>> since the other 2 nice rolling bikes were quite heavy. It's not geometry >>> only because the 2003 Curt was almost identical to the '99 Joe, and the 2 >>> other nice rolling bikes (2015 Matthews RBFD and Herse) had/have very >>> different geometry. Ditto for postion, as all my bikes except the Monocog >>> are set up much the same. >>> >>> I don't know! But the experience reliably repeats -- with the 1999, >>> since April 1999 -- so it's not all in my head. >>> >>> The feel of the 1999 is a combination of quick acceleration, easy >>> rolling (easy to turn over a gear), and nimble handling. >>> >>> The Matthews 2015 RBFD and 2020 RBFR come close in the way they roll; in >>> fact I'd say that the RBFD is at least as good if not slightly better in >>> ease of maintaining a gear, but of course does not accelerate as fast or >>> turn as nimbly; the newer Matthews comes closer in acceleration, is not >>> quite as easy in maintaining a gear, but when shod with the same Elk Passes >>> (instead of the current Naches Passes) felt similarly nimble in handling -- >>> with the NPs it's slightly less nimble. Note that the 2020 Matthews is >>> about 26 lb with AM hub versus 18 lb for the '99, so that affects the feel, >>> but the NPs roll almost as well as the EPs. The 2015 Matthews is 30 1/2 lb. >>> >>> So perhaps it's a combination of light weight, good tires (even the GPs >>> and Pro Races were decent tires), geometry, and setup/fit. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 5:42 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch < >>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> Very good description. You stated the Starck was better in "fit, feel, >>>> and above all, the energetic response to pedaling input". The 'fit' seems >>>> to imply the cockpit dimensions are closer to your body than the others. >>>> The 'feel' seems to imply the frame geometry is better for you. >>>> >>>> Any idea of what gives the Starck the energetic feel?? Is the frame >>>> stiffer than others or more flexible and 'planes' better? >>>> >>>> John Hawrylak >>>> Woodstown NJ >>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/856c38fd-972c-47c3-a0bf-c172cbf29857n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/856c38fd-972c-47c3-a0bf-c172cbf29857n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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