Interesting discussion! OP here- Let me make my original question / request
more precise:
*What is the difference in speed between when you ride the same ride on a
road bike vs a bike set up in the Rivendell touring style? Ride a pavement
route that favors the road bike, don't draft, wear the style of clothes you
would normally wear on that particular bike, and don't worry about power
output. Rest a day or two, and ride the same route with the other bike and
report the relative difference in speed.*
Our goal is to collect many experiences from many diverse riders so we can
come away with some kind of rule of thumb, for example it could turn out
that: "most people ride a Riv style touring bike at around 75 - 90% of
their speed on a conventional road bike".
There are so many possible reasons for the difference in speed: body
position on the bike, power output, gearing, aerodynamics of clothing and
gear, tires, bike weight, etc. All of these are different in my two bikes.
A typical scientific approach would focus on exactly one of these
differences, and try to hold everything else fixed so that we can
understand the effect of that one difference. Instead, the goal here is to
quantify the cumulative effect of all these differences under real world
riding conditions.
Of course, our bikes won't be exactly set up the same way, and we don't
ride the same way, so our numbers will be different. This is a good thing,
because it shows how people actually ride. For example, my road bike is a
fixed gear, and that certainly has at least some effect.
On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:30 PM Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just read the article whose url Nick posted; enlightening! Now at an
> average 30 mph (yes, extreme case to make my point) over 100K/60 miles, a
> single KG would add 48 seconds to the time, and of course, that is more
> than huge in a race's outcome. Heck, extrapolating wildly, an eight of KG,
> a mere 4 oz, would by this calculation add 6 seconds, which in a race is
> more than a big deal. So, for pros, yes, I can see that, *all else equal,*
> even
> a few oz are important. But for us mere mortals, No Big Deal.
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:52 PM Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, John. Yes, I would really like to see Powermeter comparisons
>> between light and heavy bikes with similar builds, wheels, and tires. Of
>> course, nowadays, at my age, this is far, far less important that I used to
>> imagine it to be back when I was a greenhorn 40-something, and really,
>> nowadays, what makes one bike feel delightful compared to other bikes is
>> merely the fit and "feel" of efficient pedaling, this last due IME to the
>> fit of the bike to the rider, the way the bike positions the rider to the
>> saddle, cranks and bar, the quality of the tires and perhaps of the wheels,
>> and in last place ("last" is deliberate), the quality of the frame tubes,
>> in a way I won't try to describe; only some frames, even heavy, seem to
>> encourage "1 cog smaller".
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 7:15 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> *I do not know the specifics,* only what Richard Schwinn stated on the
>>> podcast. He also stated the weight difference would affect the average
>>> time in a stage type race, due to affecting the velocites (t=d/v). I
>>> simply assumed, given his background, he knew what he was talking about
>>>
>>> I are suggesting using it to correct for weight and see if the average
>>> velocities are due to a frame/fork/wheel difference or are other factors
>>> affecting the average velocity. One key point he made was the use of
>>> college athletics to obtain consistent power inputs. Today, Power Meters
>>> would used to ensure and correct for power differences.
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 8:23:26 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> John: do you know if this weight difference was tested on a flat course
>>>> on one that included hills? Steady state or start and stop? I daresay 12 lb
>>>> would slow acceleration noticeably, but IME, as a very non-pro-level rider
>>>> (No!) weight itself, even 10 lb weight differences, make little average
>>>> speed differences for steady state rolling, tires being more or less equal.
>>>> At least, my 30 1/2 lb Matthews 1:1 with 62 mm EL Big Ones seems to roll as
>>>> fast on the flats -- judging by ease of maintaining cadence in similar
>>>> gears -- as my 18 lb Riv custom with 28 mm EL Elk Passes. (Big Ones are 450
>>>> grams each, Elk Passes are 175 grams each.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 3:52 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> About 7 years ago on the Opinionated Cyclist podcast (Diana R?),
>>>>> Richard Schwinn stated Schwinn did testing with a university to determine
>>>>> the speed difference due to frame weight. The result was a 12 lb increase
>>>>> in frame weight resulted in a 1 mph difference. I believe the wheels
>>>>> were
>>>>> constant (so constant angular momentum) since Schwinn was interested in
>>>>> frame weights.
>>>>> Richard Schwinn implied the results was not significant for 'normal'
>>>>> riders, but is significant in a race or a timed ride over a long distance,
>>>>> i.e., the rider on the lighter frame would cross the line earlier than one
>>>>> on a heavier frame and the time difference is calculatable (assuming each
>>>>> rider has the same power output).
>>>>> The testing was done with college level athletics, to obtain a
>>>>> constant power output.
>>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
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