Well again, Eric, there's this social dynamic known as "mob behavior" is there not? That is, "... you are not like the rest of us, but you want to behave like the rest of us are inferior to what we already have as known and acceptable standards (be that frame material, road bike-like design, etc.), which therefore makes you look like an outlier and either equal to or superior to the rest of us, especially if you drop out of a pace line in order to chase down and beat a faster rider? What other behavior would you expect from a group like that under those circumstances?
On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:34:47 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote: > Would Leah have been treated differently if she showed up on a steel IF > club racer? What about a carbon platypus, if there were such a thing? > > The frame material doesn’t matter. Her bike style was unusual, and that > seemed to bring out some attitude from some club members. To attribute that > to the frame material seems like a huge leap. > > > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Well, Eric, on what else would you blame the bad manners in club riding >> other than "We've got our CF racing bikes ready to go and 'who are you?' >> coming into our regular bike formations bringing this relaxed steel bike >> frame bike?" Wouldn't you think it welcoming to any and all who wanted to >> ride along as acceptable? What about if the likes of Freddy Hoffman who >> might've decided to ride with that group, someone who would likely leave >> everyone else far behind? >> >> >> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:16:45 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote: >> >>> How again do exotic frame materials bring about bad manners in club >>> riding? I'm really not seeing a causal relationship there. >>> >>> Eric >>> pretty much the same regardless of what frame material I ride >>> >>> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 4:15 PM George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Something has happened to some of these local clubs over the decades. >>>> When I was riding with head's down groups like the ones mentioned in this >>>> thread back in the late 70's/early 80's they weren't like that. They all >>>> looked out for each other and politely pointed out different things to >>>> expect on the ride, etc. and how to ride in pace lines. I blame the >>>> gradual introduction of exotic frame materials like titanium and then CF >>>> and high, high end components for much of this behavior as well as an >>>> elitist mindset. >>>> >>>> Couple of examples: Ten-to-twelve years ago a local club based in a >>>> Western suburb of Chicago used to sponsor a century ride centered in the >>>> next county to the West of here. All of a sudden it was no longer on the >>>> yearly ride roster; it just disappeared. So, one day I spotted a couple >>>> riding through the park behind my house while I was out there with the Ram >>>> doing the annual post-Winter maintenance shakedown. They stopped near me, >>>> wowed by the Ram and so we struck up a conversation. When I found out >>>> that >>>> they were members of that local club I asked about the demise of that >>>> annual century ride their club had sponsored. The guy said, "You know all >>>> of those baked goods, paper cups of trail mix, etc. that were available to >>>> registered riders at the sag stops? Well, those were all voluntarily made >>>> by members of the club so the money from the registration for the ride all >>>> went directly to the club's treasury." "So?" I said. He said, "Well, as >>>> it turned out, the club's treasury wound up with a lot of money in it. >>>> During club meetings arguments broke out over how to use the money. The >>>> racing crowd wanted all of it to go toward "their" club racing jerseys; >>>> others disagreed and the end result was a cancellation of the annual >>>> century and a general break-up of the club membership." >>>> >>>> Another example involved training rides of racer-types through a very >>>> picturesque and hilly Indianapolis cemetery, ideal for a criterium course. >>>> >>>> The groups became so arrogant and condescending that they had their rides >>>> while funeral services were being held, often riding directly through >>>> groups of mourners. The cemetery finally had to put a stop to it, >>>> limiting >>>> the availability of the property's drives. >>>> >>>> I could go on and on about how these attitudes reflect on the general >>>> state of our culture nowadays, but it would likely devolve into remarks >>>> that would force the moderator to nuke most of the comments. Anyway, >>>> that's my two-cents on the matter. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:49:58 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> >>>>> I just hope it stays fun, or more accurately you continue to find the >>>>> fun in it. Pacelines are notorious for attractng competitive grumpy >>>>> people >>>>> who wouldn't know fun if it cracked them over the head with a carbon >>>>> fork. >>>>> Stay away from those people! >>>>> >>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:21:08 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding >>>>> Ding! wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I see your point, Max. And I think you’re right. If I don’t fall into >>>>>> line visually, then I might not be wise in their ways and therefore put >>>>>> the >>>>>> group at risk. And that’s a fair concern because I don’t have paceline >>>>>> experience (yet). We do not ride super tight or at 25 mph, and I hope we >>>>>> never do. (Are we a pretend paceline?) The ride leader mentions some >>>>>> things >>>>>> at the huddle and they say “don’t cross wheels” so I make sure never to >>>>>> do >>>>>> that. But there have been times when things go wrong and I wonder what I >>>>>> was *supposed* to have done. For instance, on the Monday Night Ride the >>>>>> woman in front of me slammed on her brakes suddenly (twice, actually, >>>>>> and I >>>>>> don’t know why). Before I even thought to do the same, I already was. >>>>>> This >>>>>> caused the man behind me to growl. Literally growl. I still don’t know >>>>>> what >>>>>> I should have done. Hit her? >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s all very new and interesting and I would love to ride with you >>>>>> one day soon in A2. >>>>>> >>>>>> Staying humble but staying on my Platypus regardless of what they >>>>>> think, >>>>>> Leah >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Max S <msh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Roadies are snobby, but potentially with good reason. Let me >>>>>> explain... >>>>>> While there CAN be plenty of groupthink and cultishness / exclusivity >>>>>> in road biking and club cycling that I don't care for, there are some >>>>>> good >>>>>> reasons to enforce a certain amount of conformity when riding fast on >>>>>> paved >>>>>> roads in a tight formation (e.g., a paceline). >>>>>> Going fast in a long, rotating paceline, on a narrow shoulder of a >>>>>> road with cars zooming by, with potential for potholes causing pinch >>>>>> flats >>>>>> with skinny tires, you have to be very disciplined as a group, and you >>>>>> have >>>>>> to have a lot of trust in those in your paceline. Any failure to point >>>>>> out >>>>>> a pothole, approaching car, or joggers, any jitters or unsteadiness in >>>>>> speed can wreak havoc on the group. In a good, properly rotating >>>>>> paceline, >>>>>> you are going >20 mph, your tire is inches away from the next rider's >>>>>> tire, >>>>>> and your bars are also inches from another person's bars as you rotate >>>>>> back >>>>>> or forward. Riding in echelons in a side-wind can be even trickier. >>>>>> I've ridden plenty when training and racing on the road, and riding >>>>>> with people who can maintain a straight line, steady speed without any >>>>>> speedometers or inclines / declines in the road is simply more >>>>>> enjoyable. >>>>>> You learn to stay the heck away from riders who are yoyo-ing back and >>>>>> forth, riders who "leave their wheel behind" when they stand up to >>>>>> climb, >>>>>> riders whose shorts and bikes are a little bit too torn up (potential >>>>>> for >>>>>> frequent crashes), and *riders who for whatever other stupid reason >>>>>> may appear like they're different enough from you that you can't 110% >>>>>> rely >>>>>> on them to keep their line and predictability in a tight bunch*. I'm >>>>>> not saying that you exhibit any of those functional foibles, but when >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't know the other riders all that well, as seems to be the occasional >>>>>> situation you're running into on these club rides, people tend to pay >>>>>> more >>>>>> attention to various secondary indicators / cues. >>>>>> If you think about the risks and people's nature when riding in tight >>>>>> groups on the road, it's literally life-and-death (or >>>>>> life-and-serious-injury) type considerations that drive these behaviors. >>>>>> In a well-run club ride, a leader will gently guide new riders in >>>>>> these unspoken rules and behaviors, and a welcoming approach can result >>>>>> in >>>>>> more trust and discipline than these gruff attitudes... It's unfortunate >>>>>> that there didn't seem to be a sufficiently experienced and >>>>>> authoritative >>>>>> "patron" on the ride to keep the skittish / insecure newbies in line and >>>>>> ensure there's a nurturing approach. But at the same time, do try to see >>>>>> it >>>>>> from another perspective. There are very good reasons to encourage >>>>>> diversity in cycling, but there are also instances / situations, where >>>>>> uniformity and conformity is the safest (and most enjoyable) way to go. >>>>>> If >>>>>> you ever get to ride with experienced and strong riders that can >>>>>> maintain a >>>>>> proper rotating paceline going at 20-25 mph, with very little work, >>>>>> relatively speaking, it's an exhilirating experience! >>>>>> >>>>>> - Max "mostly reformed roadie racer who still likes to make an >>>>>> effort, even if mostly on dirt roads" in A2 >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Take a day or weekend to visit A2 (a 2-3 hr drive from KZoo) and >>>>>> you'll discover lots of nice rides and friendly riders here. Happy to >>>>>> host. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 8:09:41 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding >>>>>> Ding! wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Last night was the worst yet. There are a lot of group rides in the >>>>>>> Club, and once they all get used to seeing me I have hope of a normal, >>>>>>> non-judgy experience. But last night was brutal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a women’s ride. You would think women would be more >>>>>>> welcoming than men, but I’m finding I have a better time with the men. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> are better at keeping their thoughts to themselves. We huddled up at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> start to discuss routes, rules, and break up into groups. Here comes a >>>>>>> 20-something, whom I recognize from the Friday ride. She rode with the >>>>>>> slow >>>>>>> group that day. She approaches me and says, “How tall are you?” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “5’6”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Great. I felt so bad that you had to turn back on Friday’s ride >>>>>>> because you didn’t have a road bike. We just all felt so bad! My Dad >>>>>>> collects road bikes in my size and I have one for you!” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was so embarrassed. She thinks I can’t afford a road bike. She >>>>>>> thinks I can’t do the ride. I am not the woman she is thinking of, and >>>>>>> she’s saying out loud what a lot of them are thinking already - that >>>>>>> woman >>>>>>> on the retro bike isn’t going to make it. I protested. Told her she >>>>>>> must be >>>>>>> thinking of someone else; I hadn’t turned back on the ride, I had >>>>>>> finished. >>>>>>> We hadn’t even ridden in the same group! “But I recognize your bike”, >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> insisted. I could not convince her, but she let it go as we rolled out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the parking lot. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> After that, I had a LOT to prove. I got into the front of that >>>>>>> peloton so that alllll the doubters behind me would see that I’m not >>>>>>> limited by my bike. That morning I had ridden 23 miles with Marc (Sam >>>>>>> rider >>>>>>> and kindred spirit), lifted weights, and would now have 24 miles in the >>>>>>> 15-16 mph class. I hoped I had enough in the tank to do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I rode alone for a lot of that ride. The other women were riding 2 >>>>>>> abreast and chatting, but no one wanted to fill in the spot next to me. >>>>>>> This went on for many miles. Finally, I ended up with a partner who >>>>>>> broke >>>>>>> the ice saying, “I like that you went retro all the way on that bike. >>>>>>> Even >>>>>>> the bag! How old is it?” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eventually, when they realized I wasn’t going to wreck their ride, >>>>>>> some of them warmed to me. They called me a beast. They liked the word >>>>>>> “Platypus” on my bike. The 20-something apologized for mistaking my >>>>>>> identity. It ended fine. But GEEZ, they make me work to prove myself. >>>>>>> Just >>>>>>> because I ride a different bike than them. The height of my persecution >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> *nothing *in comparison to the truly persecuted, but I’ve gotten a >>>>>>> taste of what they endure. And it’s rotten. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A new woman in the 12 mph group finished and I asked how was her >>>>>>> ride. She has an upright Raleigh with suspension fork and seat post. >>>>>>> She is >>>>>>> obese but working on it. “Well, it makes me want to get a road bike,” >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> said. Not me, I said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, I love my Platypus and it doesn’t stop me from doing a >>>>>>> single thing I want to do with it. I would like to see more Racing >>>>>>> Platypuses at club rides! They are more than capable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Leah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:50:20 PM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Leah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My Rivendells fall into the category of dog-carrier, racing >>>>>>>> optional (she prefers long winding descents, and so demands their >>>>>>>> geometry). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She turns and whines when 'we' are too slow on the inclines. Keeps >>>>>>>> me fit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [image: IMG-2956.jpg] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [image: IMG-3325.jpg] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> SB, CA >>>>>>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 1:12:46 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What a beautiful Platypus! Very cool group you get to ride with, >>>>>>>>> Chris. Our Club is set up similarly in that if offers rides all week >>>>>>>>> long >>>>>>>>> from April-October (not the winter months, you spoiled Californian!) >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> with all groups of speed. The local bike shop offers fun rides, too, >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> to local breweries or businesses in neighboring towns. They are >>>>>>>>> really nice >>>>>>>>> people and I’m so happy I got to join. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How are you liking that Platypus? Is it a Racing Platypus or some >>>>>>>>> other kind? >>>>>>>>> Leah >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 6, 2022, at 3:30 PM, Chris Halasz <cha...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I haven't done a club ride in decades - back then, it was a >>>>>>>>> weekly Southern California thing, whether the Como St ride, MTB, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I now, however, enjoy rides with folks I've met over the years >>>>>>>>> from our local Newcomers club. Leah - you might want to look into >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> especially if you're new to your area. Our local chapter hosts >>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>> weekly rides year-round (OK, weather is kind of accommodating here), >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> there's a wide diversity of bikes and capabilities. From there, folks >>>>>>>>> gather in local groups, maybe by average speed, maybe according to >>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>> interests and growing friendships, and sometimes neighborhood >>>>>>>>> convenience. >>>>>>>>> Sometimes it's just two of us, sometimes a dozen with meet. Newcomers >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> introduced us to so many of the nicest people we've ever known, and >>>>>>>>> we have >>>>>>>>> made some of the dearest friends in our lifetimes. Highly >>>>>>>>> recommended. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the sake of gear diversity, I've attached a photo of the Platy >>>>>>>>> next to one dear friend's cutting edge e-bike. We ride together, >>>>>>>>> although >>>>>>>>> not often enough (He's retired, and I've been working too many >>>>>>>>> weekends). >>>>>>>>> The past couple of times we've ridden, we've encountered other group >>>>>>>>> rides, >>>>>>>>> with young and fit cyclists on ominous sleek carbon frames. Each >>>>>>>>> time, as >>>>>>>>> they pass us by on long inclines, comments to the Platy are something >>>>>>>>> like, >>>>>>>>> 'hey - that is a beautiful bike - no really - unbelievable - nicest >>>>>>>>> bike >>>>>>>>> out here' and 'your bike is set up perfect - don't change a thing - >>>>>>>>> awesome'. I'm confident they're verbalizing what I'm sure some of >>>>>>>>> those on >>>>>>>>> your club rides are thinking when they see the racing Platy roll into >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> group. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ... Please keep the club ride stories going! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> SB, CA >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_2237.jpeg] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:07:49 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I did two group rides on a Clem and felt like I could not keep up >>>>>>>>>> well. The group averaged about 16 mph so not super fast. But, I had >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> ridden much prior to the ride and I had the stock Kenda tires that I >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> might have contributed to my slow pace. There are mostly rolling >>>>>>>>>> hills in >>>>>>>>>> this area and on the route we took. I'm in better condition now and >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> lighter tires so I want to try again. Let us know if you do the >>>>>>>>>> ride, Leah, >>>>>>>>>> and how it goes? >>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This recent club ride with the faster group got me thinking. If >>>>>>>>>>> those riders are smart, they'll put Leah at the head of the pace >>>>>>>>>>> line most >>>>>>>>>>> of the time. With her sitting in a bolt upright position on that >>>>>>>>>>> Platypus >>>>>>>>>>> she'd make an excellent wind break for those following. And from >>>>>>>>>>> the sound >>>>>>>>>>> of they way she rides she wouldn't slow down their objective speed, >>>>>>>>>>> either. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 7:37:51 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding >>>>>>>>>>> Ding! wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I moved the Racing Platypus into the faster class last night. >>>>>>>>>>>> It was 15-16 mph, and the route chosen was 26.4 miles. That’s the >>>>>>>>>>>> longest >>>>>>>>>>>> club ride I’ve attended, and not knowing if I could keep pace made >>>>>>>>>>>> it a >>>>>>>>>>>> little terrifying. The group was nice enough but skeptical. I was >>>>>>>>>>>> the last >>>>>>>>>>>> to arrive, and as I wheeled my sparkly raspberry Billie-barred >>>>>>>>>>>> mixte into >>>>>>>>>>>> their group of lethal-looking black carbon drop-barred bikes I >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to >>>>>>>>>>>> disappear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> “Are you with us?” asked one member. Cringe. >>>>>>>>>>>> “Pretty bike,” said another. (Not “nice bike” mind you.) >>>>>>>>>>>> My old group pulled up and the ride leader said, “Leah, aren’t >>>>>>>>>>>> you coming with us?” >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right there, I just about caved. Feeling like a traitor to the >>>>>>>>>>>> one group and a pretender to the other, I diplomatically said I’d >>>>>>>>>>>> just try >>>>>>>>>>>> the faster group this once and see how it went. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone (but me) clipped in and we set off. I remember >>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that this was crazy. But, everything I do now scares me, >>>>>>>>>>>> so away I >>>>>>>>>>>> went. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There were new things I noticed in this group. They don’t stop >>>>>>>>>>>> - they will slow up a bit to let people catch up if need be, and >>>>>>>>>>>> they obey >>>>>>>>>>>> traffic signals but other than that, we are moving. You drink your >>>>>>>>>>>> water on >>>>>>>>>>>> the go. They ride closer together, probably for drafting purposes. >>>>>>>>>>>> They all >>>>>>>>>>>> magically accelerate at a certain point in the ride. I don’t know >>>>>>>>>>>> why they >>>>>>>>>>>> did it, but I figure it was because they knew we were at the end >>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>> ride. Like horses racing home toward the barn. They talk more >>>>>>>>>>>> about gear >>>>>>>>>>>> and bikes/components. They are not appreciating the flowering >>>>>>>>>>>> trees. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My Apple Watch shows we averaged a perfect 16.0 mph for 26.4 >>>>>>>>>>>> miles. We hit speeds of 18.4 mph at times. I thought it was fun to >>>>>>>>>>>> fly >>>>>>>>>>>> around at that speed but also hoped we weren’t expected to keep it >>>>>>>>>>>> up for >>>>>>>>>>>> the entirety of the ride. My heart rate averaged a very >>>>>>>>>>>> respectable 147 >>>>>>>>>>>> beats/min. I did not feel spent or sore or beat up after the ride. >>>>>>>>>>>> As I >>>>>>>>>>>> type this this morning I feel fantastic and will lift weights >>>>>>>>>>>> after coffee. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You can ride your Rivendell to a club ride. You can even join >>>>>>>>>>>> one of the faster classes. You will be comfortable and you will >>>>>>>>>>>> get to turn >>>>>>>>>>>> your head and enjoy the scenery. But you will have to endure some >>>>>>>>>>>> skepticism and you should do it good-naturedly. That way it will >>>>>>>>>>>> be ok for >>>>>>>>>>>> them to change their minds about you when the ride is over. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It’s really fun to do group rides and be with bike people. I >>>>>>>>>>>> like having someone else choose the route so I’m free to enjoy the >>>>>>>>>>>> scenery. >>>>>>>>>>>> But this is not the highest use of the bicycle. I really like >>>>>>>>>>>> riding to get >>>>>>>>>>>> places and do errands best of all. I am glad I don’t have to >>>>>>>>>>>> choose one or >>>>>>>>>>>> the other. My bikes can do both. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have this crazy idea. Next week, I could join my previous >>>>>>>>>>>> group and bring my big, huge, hero Clem. Wouldn’t that be wild? >>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> ridden a Clem on a club ride? >>>>>>>>>>>> Leah >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:21:44 PM UTC-4 David Pulsipher >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a great story - I love your open mindset to put >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself out there. It's easy to feel like "I don't belong" to >>>>>>>>>>>>> these types >>>>>>>>>>>>> of groups when you see people riding differently than you. So >>>>>>>>>>>>> commendable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last year I did a "Gravel Race" on my surly long haul trucker >>>>>>>>>>>>> with upright bars. So many people looked shocked, but I finished >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the top >>>>>>>>>>>>> half of the group. People were complimenting me on my bike and >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually liked seeing bike diversity. I have to admit my >>>>>>>>>>>>> curiosity was >>>>>>>>>>>>> piqued when my friend said "I can't imagine how fast you'd be on >>>>>>>>>>>>> a carbon >>>>>>>>>>>>> gravel frame." I think I considered it for about two days... ; ) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 6:23:13 AM UTC-6 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I strongly concur! And that's why Leah is da bomb! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 8:19 AM Bill Lindsay < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tape...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, I didn't mean it as a multiple choice. I meant it as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> three embedded layers of "it ain't gonna happen". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The *strongest* layer of "ain't gonna happen" in Leah's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case is C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A. 100:1 odds Maybe 20 years from now all bikes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carbon. She'd buy one if that was the only way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B. 10:1 odds Maybe 30 years from now Specialized has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patented "bicycle" and monopolizes the entire industry. She'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy one if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that was the only way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C. 1,000,000:1 odds Even if every bike in the world is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> black carbon specialized, on her first ride she'd go buy a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rattle can and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get some color on that thing! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BL in EC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 5:02:19 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to the multiple choices is all of the above! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 7:52:51 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric Daume jokingly asked: " how long until we see Leah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a black carbon Diverge?" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we're taking bets, put my money on the "don't hold your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breath" box. LOL! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A. I bet she won't ever ride carbon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B. If she ever rides carbon it won't be from Specialized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C. If she ever rides a carbon Specialized, it won't be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> black >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Lindsay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 6, 2022 at 7:35:44 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So how long until we see Leah on a black carbon Diverge? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: 6982042D-DB05-4044-8AC4-9076A708539B.jpeg][image: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0221807D-FECC-440C-AE2E-AF03DDB70770.jpeg]We moved to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michigan 4 months ago. After years of being a Lone Wolf I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unthinkable and joined the local bike club. The club was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> founded by racers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 50 (FIFTY!) years ago, but they seemed welcoming enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ridden in a group, I lacked knowledge of my pace and skill, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not knowif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d enjoy club riding. I’ve never been a road rider. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> West has always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offered me bike lanes and bike paths - riding with cars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going 55 mph seemed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suicidal. Would it be stressful? Would I be accepted? Would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I be slow? My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raspberry Platypus is my lightest build. I don’t know how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much it weighs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it has a lightweight Nitto rear rack, a Bag Boy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saddlesack (not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pictured), and too many things on the handlebars. Meet my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> club ride bike. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Racing Platypus. 😂 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the board members took me under her wing. She >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invited her good friend and organized a ride for the 3 of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us. She taught me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> club etiquette on the road. They rode carbon bikes with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drop bars, but they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not question my bike. It went great. Bolstered by that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ride, I accepted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her invite to the first club ride of the season, provided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we could ride in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same group. “They’ll never believe it when you show up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with that bike, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leah, but you’re strong and you can definitely do club >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rides.” I have stars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my eyes for this woman; she is admirable in every way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If she said I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do it, I would try. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pulled into the park and it was carbon and drop bars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as far as the eye could see. A wave of nausea washed over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me as I walked my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Platypus to the group huddle. Billie Bars on full display, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grant Safety >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> triangle clasped around my waist, looking like a true Lone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolf, I stood in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the circle. The older members were very welcoming and found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice things to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say about the Racing Platypus. The younger racers…well, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they ignored it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m just as guilty; I find them terrifying, so I didn’t say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hello, either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My mentor put us in the 12-14 mph group. A good place to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start. It proved too easy and I coasted much of that 20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> miles. We decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we’d do the 15-16 mph group next time. That day came and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to bad weather >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a small turnout. We joined the slow group again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because they would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have only had 2 riders otherwise. We chose the route famous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “rollers” (“What are rollers?” the Platypus rider asked.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and conquered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in cold weather with a headwind. The Racing Platypus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> baptized on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mountains and hills of Las Vegas, took no issue with those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rollers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next night was the women’s ride - the first of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> season. About 10 women, all experienced riders. Triathletes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marathoners, most. All on drop bar carbon or aluminum. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wondering if they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should create a slow and a fast group, my mentor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrupted and said we’ll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be one 15-16 mph group. Leah can hang. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hadn’t realized *I* was the reason they were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considering a slow group, but there it was. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was a challenging ride. Those women were fast. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> route was 24 miles and the wind was strong. I was able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in 2nd and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd position but I was working to do it. I loved it; such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to ride with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bike people and to let them plan the route. We passed by 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lakes. We saw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tons of wildlife. Cars were nice to us and it felt safe to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ride on roads >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the group. I got the “wow, a vintage bike” and “I’d >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like a cruiser >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bike, too” comments, and one comment that assumed I must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afford a carbon bike. They don’t know how it’s possible not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be clipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in. They marveled at my kickstand. But, I don’t mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it’s so much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to ride with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Observations and Things I’m learning: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Bike diversity is healthy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is good for racers to see Rivendells and similar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style bikes in their club rides. It is good for me to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds of bikes and other riding styles. I can be as guilty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as them for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking my way/bike are best. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Bringing your practical, Just Ride mentality to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> club is good. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems racer types don’t know about USING a bike. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot have your carbon frame knocked about in a bike rack, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so errands by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bike/commuting isn’t popular. I have been active on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> club’s FB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion page, and been posting the 30 Days of Biking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge. I’ve got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pics of my huge grocery hauls on my Shopping Platypus and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surprisingly, they did not know about this national >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> challenge, and several >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of them are now joining me, including my mentor! Riding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for pleasure and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errands is a foreign concept to most. They ride to go fast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and get miles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and be fit. But, they show genuine interest in riding for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practical reasons. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. There are things you can learn from racers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are more aware of safety issues than I am. They >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved me from a crash last night by calling out “HOLE!” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while my head was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned, enthralled with the swans on the lake. I saw the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hole and swerved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just in time. I also ride too close to the yellow lines in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the center of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the road for their comfort and they (rightly) corral me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back in. Shifting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is going to matter. I rarely shift, but I noticed that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after a stop, I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slow to get going and standing on my pedals - because I’m >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my hardest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gear, duh. I should learn to anticipate that so I’m in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more favorable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gear when we set off from intersections. There will be more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons I glean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from them, I am sure. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Club riding will force you to be faster. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speed hasn’t been a priority for me, but it’s nice to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know you *can* be fast. And if you can be faster, you will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitter. I’m interested to see how my body responds to these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new challenges. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Club riding will teach you about yourself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I ride, the more I learn. My preferences have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolved over the years, but I think I know how I like my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bikes and my gear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the terrain I prefer. But I was doing all my riding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone. Riding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with others shows you where you fall in context, introduces >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, reveals little things you might not know about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself - like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your biases. Riding with others can show you who you are - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good, bad or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ugly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two women in my group are interested in a Platypus of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their own. My mentor is saving her pennies for one, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another woman told >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me last night she is very interested. Mine will probably be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only Racing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Platypus. But it would be a thrill to see more of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bikes here in town. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don’t count yourself out just because you ride a bike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is markedly different from the norm. Attached are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos from my last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 club rides. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/086d823e-828a-433c-981d-8ea19ecfa962n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/086d823e-828a-433c-981d-8ea19ecfa962n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/EICfswhTsI8/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/37067fd7-eec6-4275-a4f7-f83ea1a72165n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/37067fd7-eec6-4275-a4f7-f83ea1a72165n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/EICfswhTsI8/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>>>>>>>> to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8662e5cc-0ee5-4381-b35e-740b8e4d3305n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8662e5cc-0ee5-4381-b35e-740b8e4d3305n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_2237.jpeg] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/EICfswhTsI8/unsubscribe >>>>>> . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f36855b2-0262-47dd-a537-38acd86b6565n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f36855b2-0262-47dd-a537-38acd86b6565n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/72ff1e25-0466-4582-9702-96d924e238a5n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/72ff1e25-0466-4582-9702-96d924e238a5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/61565e88-7a5c-4dda-a679-d38ce45189dan%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/61565e88-7a5c-4dda-a679-d38ce45189dan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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