Thanks for the info, Jim. Now I wish I'd started a new thread rather than occasioning academic thread drift!
On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 9:53:13 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: > Correct, my custom is a brightened up version of the grey/kidney bean > which was originally the custom paint on Mark @ Riv's cyclocrosser before > it landed on Hunqapillar. Interestingly (to me!) the dove grey I ended up > with was the same color (without red) on his FIRST cyclocrosser. I used to > be able to find pics of his bikes on the webs but they've disappeared now. > [image: > Screenshot_20221209_184831.jpg] > > On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:37:10 PM UTC-8 J J wrote: > >> Eric, here's a rundown — it's not a quick one but it is thorough and >> interesting :) Joe, your asterisked point is apropos. The Toyo Atlantis >> I've been riding lately does not feel like it is lacking stoutness at all. >> >> So I looked up the actual Hunqapillar copy from April 28, 2011 that was >> on Riv's site. It's slightly different from the info in the Hunqapillar >> brochure! As with everything Rivendell, specs and info are subject to >> change without warning — and they did. I attached the copy here as a PDF, >> but the first few grafs from *April 28, 2011* are telling. This is when >> the Hunq frame, fork, and headset cost $1,500. >> >> - *It's a stout touring-trail bike, somewhere between an Atlantis and >> a Bombadil. It has Bomba-stout tubing --- about 0.1mm thicker in the main >> tubes than the Atlantis tubing*. But like the Atlantis, the >> Hunqapillar has either 26-inch or 700c wheels, depending on the frame >> size >> (48cm-51/26; 54-58-62/700C). Geometry here >> >> <https://web.archive.org/web/20110428232426/http://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloads/403/original_geometry.pdf> >> . >> - Again Bombadil-like, it has an expanded frame, meaning the listed >> size truly is the length of the seat tube, and then from that point the >> top >> tube slopes up six degrees. This increases the standover height (compared >> to a top tube that's level or slopes up less), and that's why you ride >> about 3 to 6cm smaller than you would, say, a Surly or Masi. And as long >> as >> you buy down a few centimeters, you'll have the standover clearance you >> like. >> - >> *The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and >> co-conspirators. It's made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by >> Tetsu >> Ishigaki, of Toyo. The main tubes are the most expensive steel tubing we >> could find anywhere --- Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The seat and >> chainstays are excellent Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in Japan by Tetsu >> Ishigaki at Toyo. * >> - *Note: *58 + 62cm Hunqapillars have been built with *both 26.8 and >> 27.2 inner seat tube dimensions*. If you are buying a frame-only from >> us, check with us before buying/using a seat-post from someone else, and >> we'll let you know which one works for your frame. >> >> It was pitched as a "budgetated" version of the Bombadil (see below), for >> loaded touring on any surface, and for riding with any kind of handlebar. >> This info above was from when the Hunq was being produced in Taiwan. It >> wasn't long thereafter that Hunq production moved to Waterford and its >> standard colors changed from dark grey and kidney bean (*which inspired >> your beautiful bike, right Joe?*) to the green and cream Hunq that I >> have ("Jay's green"). For reasons I won't get into right now, I was >> watching this movement happen in real time because I had one of the grey >> Taiwan models before I got the green Waterford model. This switch from >> Taiwan to Waterford happened late 2011 to early 2012. The price went up >> $375, too. >> >> *Now the following is from October 6, 2012.* At this point it was listed >> as being made both in Taiwan and Wisconsin, but the price was $1,875. It no >> longer mentioned tube thickness. >> >> - *Hunqapillar* >> - *New color! Green with cream details/decals. *More, better, photos >> on the Hunqaflikr >> >> <https://web.archive.org/web/20121006151041/http://www.flickr.com/photos/79246467@N03/sets/72157631051143060/> >> . >> - *History. Concept. Etc.* >> - Our most extravagant, screw-the-expense bike is the off-roady >> Bombadil, and *the Hunqapillar is a budgetated version of that >> bike—only slightly short-cutted to make it a lot more affordable and >> barely >> less heavy duty than it’s much more expensive big brother. But still—the >> Hunqapillar is extremely labor-intensive bike by any standards, you pay >> more for it than you will for a welded bike. (Not a jab at welded bikes, >> just a fact.)* >> - Like all of our bikes, the Hunqapillar is hand-made of fine, lugged >> steel, and uses our own quite expensive and fine investment-cast fittings. >> >> >> - The Hunqapillar is a touring bike—for road or trail. >> - The riding position, clearance for fat tires and fenders, and >> braze-ons make the Hunqapillar ready for touring on any surface and in >> any >> weather. You won’t find a better touring bike. Some may have disc >> brakes or suspension or other features of debatable worth, but the >> Hunqapillar, without them, is our idea of perfect. >> >> >> - And it's a trail bike. >> - The tubes are stout, but reasonable in weight, and the strong >> lugged joints should last or decades. There’s clearance for 58mm tires. >> If >> you need fatter than that, get a Pugsley. >> - Trivia: Former employee Daniel rode a proto-Hunqapillar the entire >> 2700-miles of the Great Divide trail. No problem. The current ones are >> vast >> improvements over that. >> >> >> - And it’s an all-‘rounder, too. >> - You could argue that it’s overkill (strengthwise) for unloaded day >> rides or general use, but the argument against that argument is even >> better: The engine (you) still comprises by far the largest percentage of >> weight on a ready-to-go bicycle, and most adult humans on Earth are >> better >> served by losing two to four pounds off the engine—which won’t weaken it— >> than by taking it off the bike, which will absolutely weaken it. The >> Huqnapillar is lean but strong. >> >> >> - Meet the Diagatube. >> - It’s the obvious oddball tube on the 58cm and larger Hunqapillars, >> and it strengthens and stiffens the frame by reestablishing the >> triangulation lost by the taller head tubes. The weight “penalty” is only >> 8oz or so—too little even raise an eyebrow over, considering the strength >> and load-carrying capability of the Hunqapillar. An extra tube is proven >> technology in Third World countries where bikes are bad and the loads >> carried are heavy. Bikes without them don’t last. The Hunqapillar has >> just >> adopted the same idea, but on a really fine bike. >> - The 54cm and smaller Hunqapillars don’t have room for the >> diagatube. They have enough triangulation already, and don’t need it. >> >> By April 2014, *the price jumped again to $2,000* and it was listed as >> being made in the USA only, and *made to order only*, i.e., not as a >> standard production bike. *By July 4, 2017 the price climbed to $2,350*. >> I could not find any Hunqapillar info beyond that. >> >> I found all this using the Web archive. Fun stuff! The glamor shot below >> is from Rivendell. >> >> [image: hunqapillar.jpg] >> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:42:48 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >> >>> Hunqapillar was the cheaper Bombadil after that MUSA frame got crazy >>> pricey, they were both stouter/more geared to rough-trail riding than >>> Atlantis and Appaloosa.* The updated models would be Gus and Susie, plus >>> the now retired Clem H. >>> >>> *Of course it can be argued that the Atlantis/Appaloosa touring bikes >>> are sufficiently stout as trail bikes. >>> >>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:32:14 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I've noticed a fair bit of interest in Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames >>>> over the last few years. The frames certainly seem to sell on the used >>>> market for quite a lot, compared to other Rivendell frames. >>>> >>>> Can someone give me a quick run-down of these bikes and what their >>>> intended purposes were? How do they differ from the more robust Riv >>>> mainstays like the Atlantis & Appaloosa? >>>> >>>> Cheers my dears >>>> >>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 4:36:29 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> >>>>> Indeed, I suspect I may have one of the last customs Rivendell >>>>> assigned to Mark Nobilette. They're not taking orders currently and I'm >>>>> not >>>>> sure Grant sees any point in getting back into that game, he has enough >>>>> on >>>>> his plate just getting production models out there to everybody who wants >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> My answer for a revived frame is uhhhhh I don't have one. Said custom >>>>> has all the current Riv philosophies built into it - long front center, >>>>> high headtube, low step-over, long stays - and I don't have a particular >>>>> affinity for the older styles. If I was looking for a production Riv now >>>>> I'd want what they sell now, they work! >>>>> >>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 8:33:16 AM UTC-8 jasonz...@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Another vote for the Bombadil. Just to add content around a one off >>>>>> production from Riv, I spoke to the good folks at Rivendell a bit this >>>>>> year >>>>>> and they are not doing any customs or special orders currently, I wanted >>>>>> a >>>>>> 56cm Bombadil, they said maaaaaybe next year (like fall 2023) if at all. >>>>>> Perhaps others have a better tie in there, but for me, I'm stuck >>>>>> waiting >>>>>> and watching for someone to grace me with my favorite bike and LOTR name >>>>>> of >>>>>> all time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 8:59:37 AM UTC-6 Joel S wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Saluki as it started the 650b Rivendell excursion. Also the Yves >>>>>>> Gomez as I never had a chance to get one. The AR should get honorable >>>>>>> mention. >>>>>>> On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 3:46:58 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The only one that fit me was the Bombadil, so the Bomba it would >>>>>>>> be. The parallel TT ones, but frankly it doesn't need it. It does make >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> a lift though, and being a straight gauge tube I can clamp it there to >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> Feedback workstand. I wouldn't pay more than $1700 for it though, not >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> over inflated 3k it ended up being when it went full diagonal extra >>>>>>>> tubes. >>>>>>>> All those extra tubes were unnecessary in real world riding though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This said, I'm pretty sure anyone can contact Grant about having a >>>>>>>> previous model made custom for not quite custom fee. It's not as if >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> blueprints, the form, vanishes. So there really is no need to bring >>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>> models as those models haven't gone anywhere. Consider them "off the >>>>>>>> menu" >>>>>>>> , formerly "on the menu" models. >>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:59:08 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bombadil, no question. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:33:51 PM UTC-5 >>>>>>>>> four...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hands down, a Legolas.. ideally a Taiwan-made frame to save a >>>>>>>>>> little coin.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just picked up a new-to-me Rambouillet, so I'm covered there >>>>>>>>>> for now.. :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 3:12:54 PM UTC-8 >>>>>>>>>> jackd...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My Hunqapillar is the favorite in the stable, but I think a case >>>>>>>>>>> can really be made to bring back the Bleriot. Classic geometry, MIT >>>>>>>>>>> (I >>>>>>>>>>> believe) to keep the price reasonable, and I'd argue that the >>>>>>>>>>> decal <https://www.flickr.com/photos/30264143@N00/4689558205> >>>>>>>>>>> is the best Riv has done. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 2:55:32 PM UTC-8 Drew Henson >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> legolas OR a more classically styled country bike with close to >>>>>>>>>>>> level top tube and shorter chain stays >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 2:16:03 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I vote long stay version of Glorious and Hunqapillar in CLEAR >>>>>>>>>>>>> COAT... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope Grant is listening >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 03:11:33 PM MST, Mackenzy >>>>>>>>>>>>> Albright <mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All these threads about "choosing the one Riv" or "how do I >>>>>>>>>>>>> pick which model" got me thinking. If you could convince >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell to >>>>>>>>>>>>> resurrect one out of production model....which would you choose? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> After acquiring a Clementine after a new Clem Smith Jr, I see >>>>>>>>>>>>> merit of the geometry of the Clementine as a standalone step >>>>>>>>>>>>> through that >>>>>>>>>>>>> feels like a long wheelbase agile bike rather than a floaty >>>>>>>>>>>>> surfboard. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely adore both-but they're extraordinarily different, >>>>>>>>>>>>> despite being >>>>>>>>>>>>> a natural and logical evolution. I really enjoyed the reference >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> thread "a tale of two clems" by Ding Ding! as I found >>>>>>>>>>>>> similarities in my >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The evolution of Rivendell's is absolutely fascinating to me >>>>>>>>>>>>> as there has never been a hang up for changing tried and true >>>>>>>>>>>>> models. XO-1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> - ALL Rounder - TOYO Atlantis - MUSA Atlantis - MIT Atlantis. >>>>>>>>>>>>> People are >>>>>>>>>>>>> still obsessive with each rendition of a concept over its >>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SOoo long story short. I would choose the Hunqapillar. Hands >>>>>>>>>>>>> down. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/386510c0-179e-4b8f-aecb-d1c8b8357553n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/386510c0-179e-4b8f-aecb-d1c8b8357553n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/630541d2-04d5-4151-8f79-174ce728482fn%40googlegroups.com.
