On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 10:55 -0700, bfd wrote: > > On Aug 16, 1:46 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 13:04 -0700, bfd wrote: > > > I don't get it what's with all the randonneur worshipping? I know > > > people here consider "racing" to be a bad word as it represents all > > > that is supposedly wrong with bicycling. Yet, randonneur is consider > > > good?! > > > > Yes. There's very little resemblance between racing and the riding most > > of us do, and almost no correspondence between the values of racing and > > ours. > > > > Racing, remember, is a sport where there is one winner and everyone else > > is a loser, and a sport where it seems to be well known that the top > > performers -- elite athletes who have no resemblance to us at all -- all > > cheat. Randonneuring is done by people just like us, sometimes in fact > > us. It's riding like we do, taken out to the limits. It rewards self > > reliance, and everybody's a winner. > > > > > So, which of those two extremes is more worthy of respect? > > > > > > > > > What I don't understand is both racing and randonneuring require > > > massive amount of time, commitment and training. You can't do either > > > well without putting in the time. > > > > Yes, but if you put in the time, it's possible for an ordinary rider > > like me (as opposed to naturally gifted athletes) to do it. In fact, > > I've done it. I'll do it again. But on club rides, I ride with the > > CCs. Faster than the CCs are the Bs, the BBs, and the As. And this > > isn't a racing club; most of the A riders aren't fast enough or trained > > enough to race, even at the lowest levels. > > > > Put it another way: anybody here who can do a 100 mile ride could do a > > 200K brevet, if they were interested. > >
> Thanks Steve. I think the issue is more of what use and what people > consider "comfortable." Unlike you or many others here, my friends > and I don't do long distance riding. Due to various time constraints, > i.e., family, work, other obligations, we only do "short" rides of > 40-70 miles, and then only on weekends or holidays (if we can get > out. So, doing a 200K "brevet" or longer is out. If you regularly do 60-70 mile rides, a September century is probably a nice stretch ride but not an insurmountable obstacle. I'm not saying you should or you must, but many club cyclists enjoy doing September centuries and find them the highlight of the cycling year. And if you've done 4 or 5 centuries in September, as many of us will do, an additional 25%, bring the ride up to 200K is not out of the question. It does bring some additional features or complications, which may be attractions or detractions, depending on your state of mind, such as a few hours of riding at night -- which, believe it or not, many of us have found enjoyable -- and the whole structure around controles and brevet cards. Note, I'm absolutely NOT saying you must or you should do so. All I am saying is, many club cyclists who enjoy doing September centuries may find the additional distance and different structure of a brevet interesting -- especially as an answer to the question "now that I've done centuries, what's next?" > > A bike that's designed to be comfortable and easily controllable when > > you're very tired is a very pleasant bike to ride on a century. > > > I guess that comes down to how you define "comfortable." For many, > like my friends and I, a "racing-style" bike is all we need. Since we > only do rides under 100 miles, actually closer to 40-60 miles, racing- > style bikes with 700x23/25 sized tires is all we need. I ride 700x25 > pumped up to about 80-90psi and find them really comfortable. I do > ride a carbon bike, but we all know frameset material is never a > factor in making a bike comfortable..... ;) Do you stop riding in November? I find some of the most sublime riding I do all year happens in the winter, especially very shortly after it snows. Around here, snow seldom lingers very long (last year's blizzards were a strong exception) so 2 days after a snow you'll find a sunny, bright day with temperatures in the low 40s, golden sun sparking on the white snow, and you feel as though you're riding through a Currier and Ives lithograph or a New England picture postcard. Trouble is, those 40 degree temps are causing that crisp white snow to melt and rivulets of snow melt run across the road everywhere. To ride down such a road without fenders invites a brown stripe up the back, specks of dirt on your glasses, and a filthy bike. No bfd, right? Just put fenders on the bike. Hell, racing bikes used to have plenty of clearance for fenders, and eyelets, too. But not any more. Now, with some carbon racing frames there isn't even clearance for a 25mm tire, never mind for full coverage fenders. So what do you do, give up riding when the roads - oh my god - are WET? As for the rest, comfort isn't a huge issue if all you ride are 40-60 miles. Back when I was having problems, they didn't happen until I'd crossed the 75 mile "barrier". Then, I'd slowly develop the feeling that a railroad spike had been driven right down into the back of my neck. Also, many saddles are fine up to 50 miles or so, but as you reach towards 70-100 they turn into torture devices. And handling that requires constant vigilance and attention can be fine, even fun, when you're not too tired. Get exhausted, though, let your mind wander a bit, and that exhiliarating hair-trigger responsiveness of your racing bike might turn on you and bring more excitement, maybe even more exfoliation, than you ever wanted. > > > A bike that's designed to be ridden in severe weather is a pleasure to > > ride in the rain. > > > We live in the SF Bay Area, so rain is not a big deal. Of course, > people like me who commute, have fenders, but for most rides it is not > needed. We don't need racks and bags as our rides are short enough > that we either carry a few powerbars (yuch!) or can stop somewhere to > get food and drinks. Well, perhaps for you and the sort of rides you do the features of randonneuring bikes are meaningless. It certainly makes your bike shopping easier, as you can find something satisfactory for you in every bike shop in the country, as your "mission profile" for a road bike seems to correspond perfectly with the capabilities of the standard generic low-clearance 700x23 road bike. For you, rejoice! However, I hope at least your questions about "what's the big deal with those bikes?" might have been answered a little. > Again, we don't do "brevets" or the distance you do, so carrying > enough to sustain a rider is not an issue. > > > What is there to not like about all that? > > > Agree. Nothing. I like all kind of bikes, so rando style works as well > as commuters, racers, cross, touring or any other bike. (OK, I don't > really care for those flying pigeon chinese bikes... > > > And for another, these bikes actually look like a bicycle. Unlike just > > about everything you find in a LBS today. > > > You haven't been to my LBS where there are all kind of bikes and > styles - from the latest Euro carbon to classic steel framesets from > builders like Ron Cooper: > > http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/A-Bicycle-Odyssey.htm Lovely! And, of course, you are within reach of Jitensha Studios as well, right? > > In fact, Tony's shop iwas the US importer of Ron Cooper framesets, at > least until Ron retires! > > > > > > > Further, it also appears to require bikes that can be costly. > > > > There are quite a few Kogswell P/Rs - configured with drop bars, the "R" > > in the name means "Randonneur" - that have been ridden on brevets. Even > > fully tricked out with a top of the line lighting system and the best > > handmade wheels money can buy, a P/R cost less to outfit than the > > cheapest Madone. So too will a hand-made custom from most of the > > builders you see over at the VSalon. > > > Agree, Kogwell was a nice frameset. Are they still in business? I > haven't heard too much about them recently. Good question. Matthew's moved out your way and the P/R line now resides with Longleaf Bicycles in Wilmington NC, although I haven't heard any news from that front. Kogswell is going off in a new direction but details haven't been shared. > Agree. on my commuter I have fenders. It helps alot on days where the > streets are wet from rain or heavy fog. But if it is raining hard, > you're still going to get wet and comfort is questionable, at least > for me. I went on the Covered Bridge Metric in Lancaster PA last Sunday. I wasn't planning on riding in the rain, and the forecast I saw only called for a 40% chance of occasional t-storms in the mid to late afternoon, but it rained for at least 40 of the 62 miles, sometimes a very heavy downpour. I had my VO Randonneur, full Honjo fenders, and a rain jacket. At no time was I uncomfortable. Yes it was a little hard to see, and there were a few moments when brakes weren't worth a crap, but at least I didn't have a stripe of horse manure up my back and I could lick my lips without worry. I saw quite a few uncomfortable faces and friends of mine, with whom I'd ridden the previous day, took the SAG wagon back from lunch on account of the rain. I had fun. But then, I had a bike designed for rain riding, and I had appropriate clothing. I'd guess fewer than 5% of those attending did. > > I don't have a team car following me with supplies, and if I called my > > wife to come get me because I had a mechanical I wouldn't ever hear the > > end of it. > Agree. A mechanically sound bike - no matter what type is important! > That's one of the reasons why I ride durable 32h spoke wheels with > regular spokes and rims that can be repaired at "anybikeshopusa" if > needed. I stay far away from wheels with proprietary rims and spokes. > That's also a reason I also use Campy ergos shifters as they are > easily rebuildable, small parts are readily available and reasonably > priced. Good Luck! Perfectly reasonable racing equipment not all that long ago, either. In fact, aside from the sew-up tires, you could look at any road racer from the early 1970s and have no trouble at all calling it "BOBish" and finding a lot of resemblance to Rivendell designs such as the Road and today's Roadeo. Adjust for the difference in gearing based on the different strengths of those racers vs us, and you'd have something right out of the RBW catalog. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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