Jeff- I have always interpreted the code to include a "connector" for each set of wires. I'm tyring to remember what a past coworker said about it and I thought there was something that referenced types of connectors in a box. If I find it I'll write again.
Jason On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Jeff Blick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > Hi wrenches, > In Reading 314.16(B)there is no mention of including polaris lugs or the > like in box fill calcs. Do any of you include such equipment in your box > fill calcs? If so how do you account for them (ie count it as two > conductors based on the size of the conductors that are landing in it) > Thanks wrenches! > > > Jeff Blick > PV installer > Sunlight Solar Inc. > 4 NW Franklin > Bend, OR 97701 > direct: 541-306-4196 > fax: 541-322-1911 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.sunlightsolar.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:39 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 336 > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: > line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the > quoted message. > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: grid-tie inverters & generators > (Jeff Clearwater, Village Power Design) > 2. Re: utility EDS signage (Kent Osterberg) > 3. Re: inverters/ generators and noise (robert ellison) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:42:29 -0500 > From: "Jeff Clearwater, Village Power Design" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grid-tie inverters & generators > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > Hi Folks, > > We burnt up a gen set's voltage regulator on an off-grid system sunny > island/sunny boy system when we took the sunny island's off-line but > didn't shut off the sunny boy. So the SB backfed the genny and fried > the very expensive voltage regulator on a 30 KW system. SMA had us > install a relay to tell the SB to shut down as soon as the AC > reference from the SI was gone. Same situation as grid-tie really in > terms of your question. > > Jeff > > > > >Hi Kelly > > > >It is an interesting issue and was just dicussing this the other day. > > > >I think what happens if the inverter backfeeds the genny, the > >generator voltage will go up, if it goes up enough, it will go > >outside the window of the inverter and the inverter will drop out, > >voltage will them return to normal, inverter will reconnect and > >repeat. > > > >But I sure wouldn't want to fix the generator. A relay powered from > >the grid will take care of the problem. > > > >jay > > > >peltz power > >On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: > > > >>Wrenches, > >>I'm dredging up this subject again (previous postings 6/08) with a > >>simple question that doesn't seem to have been answered: > >> > >>Is there any issue connecting a batteryless grid-tie PV system to > >>the load side of a panel that is backed-up by a generator on an > >>automatic transfer switch, when the grid is down and the generator > >>running? > >> > >>In this case the PV is 5.7kW, the inverter an SMA 6000, the > >>generator unknown size/type, but propane, automatic start, and > >>backing up the entire main panel. > >> > >>SMA tech support first said it's OK, then that the generator will > >>blow up. I can imagine, if the inverter tries to sync with the > >>inverter, that the voltage could rise, causing the inverter to > >>disconnect, wait 5 minutes, repeat. Is there anything nasty that > >>could happen? > >> > >>Thanks, > >>-Kelly > >> > >> > >>Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. > >>Whidbey Sun & Wind, LLC > >>Renewable Energy Systems > >>NABCEP Certified PV Installer > >>987 Wanamaker Rd, > >>Coupeville, WA 98239 > >>PH & FAX 360-678-7131 > >><>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >> > >>List Address: > >><mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > g > >> > >>Options & settings: > >><http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >http > ://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >>List-Archive: > >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >>List rules & etiquette: > >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >>Check out participant bios: > >>www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > >Options & settings: > >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > >List-Archive: > >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > >List rules & etiquette: > >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > >Check out participant bios: > >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Senior Design Engineer > NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer > http://www.nabcep.org/ > Village Power Design/NorthEast Solar Design > Turnkey Solar Design & Installation for the Commercial Sector > http://www.villagepower.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Voice: 413-259-3750 > Fax: 413-825-0703 > 65 Schoolhouse Rd > Amherst, MA 01002 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachme > nts/20081120/37b612c2/attachment-0001.htm<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20081120/37b612c2/attachment-0001.htm> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:24:59 -0800 > From: Kent Osterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] utility EDS signage > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Phil, > > NEC 690.17 says "Where all terminals of the disconnecting means may be > energized..." It would take a pretty rare malfunction of a grid > connected inverter to energize the load terminals of the utility > disconnect. But we have some AHJs that require this label on every ac > disconnect, all the way back to the utility meter, anyway. The warning > is appropriate on the dc disconnect of almost all inverters because the > capacitors in the inverter take a few minutes to bleed off. > > To me, the bigger hassle are plaques required by 705.10. Can anyone > give me a reasonable explanation for their value in a utility > interactive system? I can understand if there is a grid backup system - > emergency personnel may need to know where to turn off the backup power; > but a grid interactive inverter shuts down when there service is shut > down. It seems to me that this plaque is likely to send an emergency > responder on a wild goose chase. > > Kent Osterberg > Blue Mountain Solar > > Phil Schneider wrote: > > Wrenches, > > > > Our utilities require an external AC disconnect between the inverter and > the > > point of interconnection, located next to the meter. In the past, we > have > > marked this switch with the language in 690.17 (although no AHJ or > utility > > has required it). Because we generally argue against the necessity of > this > > switch, I don't feel it is accurate to say that "terminals on both the > line > > AND load sides may be energized in the open position". > > > > Do other Wrenches post this plaque? Is there a way that both line AND > load > > terminals of this switch could be energized? (other than an inverter not > > paying attention to its UL listing?) > > > > Thanks again for your thoughts, > > P. > > > > Phil Schneider > > Creative Energies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Options & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date: > 11/18/2008 > 8:59 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:38:45 -0500 > From: "robert ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] inverters/ generators and noise > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Probably due to the load of the charger, try changing the rpm a little > (higher) if you can. Might help. I have had stoves that wouldn't light > under > full charger load. They did better at a somewhat higher rmp (frequency) > > Bob > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:12 AM, jay peltz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > here is along those same lines a question about line noise. > > > > > > System 15kw diesel generator > > > > 4 stack outback at 24v 120v/240vac > > > > 3000 amp hr industrial batteries. > > > > when genny running, 59.5-60 hz > > voltage 122/244 > > > > > > Symptoms. > > > > when charging there is some buzzing on some electrical equipment in the > > house. Stove pizeo won't lite, transformer on furnace runs hot, Fridge > > makes more noise. > > Seems to get worse at end of charge cycle. > > > > > > Now, with inverter only, no noise, humm, buzz etc. > > > > With Genny only no buzz, humm, etc. > > > > > > Any advice? > > > > thanks, > > > > jay > > > > peltz power > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Options & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachme > nts/20081120/eaffd022/attachment.htm<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20081120/eaffd022/attachment.htm> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 336 > ******************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Jason Lombard CSBA Open Hand Solar LLC. Pecos, NM. 87552 505 795 8646 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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