Ray: I apologize but I thought this discussion was off-line.
Mike Holy and everyone but apparently our local AHJ agree: wire guarding is required. William > On Sep 10, 2015, at 4:04 PM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > I'm confused again. Do we need to guard ground mount arrays or not? I > thought it was clear that we did need to guard the array wiring. > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 >> On 9/9/2015 6:46 PM, William Miller wrote: >> Bill: >> >> How right you are. I spoke with Mike Stoker of the County of San Luis >> Obispo today and he told me that both you and Mike Holt are saying that >> guards are not required on readily accessible wiring. I sent him your >> recent email to me on the subject. He may be in touch. If you want to >> write him, his email is msto...@co.slo.ca.us. >> >> I looked on Mike Holt’s site and did not see anything from Mike about wire >> guarding. I wrote to Mike and asked him directly. I will let you know what >> I learn. >> >> William >> >> >> <mime-attachment.jpg> >> Lic 773985 >> millersolar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of billbroo...@sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 2:21 PM >> To: 'RE-wrenches' >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> William, >> >> You can always quote me to an AHJ, as long as I actually said it or wrote it. >> >> I have been accused of saying all kinds of things that I never said—people >> just misunderstood what I said and “quoted” me incorrectly. >> >> All the best—and stay safe. Always tragic to hear of electrocutions—most are >> so preventable as this one clearly was. Never, ever assume that a circuit is >> off. I know you warned against inductive sensors, but they should still be >> used as one of several methods to detect voltage. I just watched a video >> about a guy who thought he was testing a 480V circuit when it was really a >> 12kV circuit. The fireball caught him on fire and burned him to death. The >> meter was the problem. An inductive sensor would have saved his life. There >> is no single method for safety. >> >> Bill. >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of William Miller >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 2:37 PM >> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> Bill: >> >> I apologize that I assumed incorrectly. Thank you for your assessment. May >> I quote you to our AHJ? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> William >> >> >> >> Lic 773985 >> millersolar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of billbroo...@sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:59 PM >> To: 'RE-wrenches' >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> William, >> >> I’m shocked and offended (a tiny bit) that you would prejudice yourself to >> not agree with me ;-). >> >> First of all I have been heavily involved in the revising of the language in >> 690.31(A) to make it clear that we cannot walk up and touch cables operating >> at 600V. The term guarded is a defined term: >> >> Guarded. Covered, shielded, fenced, enclosed, or otherwise >> protected by means of suitable covers, casings, barriers, >> rails, screens, mats, or platforms to remove the likelihood >> of approach or contact by persons or objects to a point >> of danger. >> >> A fence actually does not prevent ready access (unless it does not have a >> gate), but the term guarded fixes that problem. The guarding means has to be >> approved by the AHJ, but many methods have been employed including mounting >> lattice work around the backside of fixed ground-mounted systems. >> >> Fences are best used for larger systems (over 50-100kW) whereas other >> methods—albeit labor intensive—are generally preferred for smaller >> installations (under 100 kW) >> >> No intelligent person would disagree with this proper interpretation of the >> NEC—including you. >> >> Bill. >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of William Miller >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:09 PM >> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> Ray: >> >> 1. Why no fence? Aesthetics. Also costs may be a wash by the time you >> mobilize a fencing contractor. >> 2. I’d apply the same requirements to a fence as one would to an >> uncovered swimming pool. There are the same consequences if a child ends up >> in the wrong place. >> 3. Why bother? >> We figure the expense will decrease as we figure better design and >> implementation. Hasn’t yet. >> We care about safety. I figure we, as an industry, will kill a child by >> electrocution someday—it is a matter of probability. I hope it won’t be on >> one of our jobs. >> We hope, in some small way, we influence the industry to improve. >> 4. The industry has not developed solutions because there is no demand. >> There is no demand because AHJs don’t enforce the code. >> >> Thanks for the compliment. We have several new designs not yet featured on >> the web site. Check back next time this comes up. >> >> William >> >> PS: I am curious what Bill Brooks take on this is, but I don’t think I will >> agree with his interpretation. >> >> W >> >> >> >> Lic 773985 >> millersolar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Ray Walters >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 11:37 AM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> WilIiam; >> >> checked out your guards on your website, that looks really clean, but also >> like a lot of work and expense. I'm still so surprised manufacturers are >> not offering an option like that to their frame systems. >> My question: how come you didn't just fence the array? Shading issues on >> the south? >> If fencing, what height of fence is considered adequate? 4 ft? 6 ft? >> >> R.Ray Walters >> CTO, Solarray, Inc >> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >> Licensed Master Electrician >> Solar Design Engineer >> 303 505-8760 >> On 9/4/2015 9:44 AM, William Miller wrote: >> Gary: >> >> I think the issue of PV wiring behind module that are readily accessible is >> addressed in (2014) 690.31: >> >> Where PV source and output circuits operating at maximum >> system voltages greater than 30 volts are installed in >> readily accessible locations, circuit conductors shall be >> guarded or installed in a raceway. >> >> I am not sure what application the original poster had in mind, but this is >> the question I think you are asking. The interpretation to 690.31 seems >> clear to me: No one should be able to touch the conductors without >> resorting to a ladder, opening a locked gate or removing a protective panel. >> Readily accessible is defined thusly: >> >> Capable of being >> reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections >> without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite >> to actions such as to use tools, to climb over or remove >> obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. >> >> Implementing this is harder than it might seem. Lacking a fence, the >> installer must either use the flimsy solar-scrim product or fabricate his or >> her own shielding. We have put a fair amount of effort towards this. See >> link. >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> >> >> Lic 773985 >> millersolar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of gary easton >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 2:22 AM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> Bill >> Are you saying there is no requirement to shield wires on a >> ground array? >> >> On Friday, September 4, 2015, <billbroo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> Craig, >> >> This one is easy to misinterpret. You missed the words “live parts”. This >> has been removed from the 2017 NEC because it is actually referring to load >> circuits being fed directly by a PV system on the dc side. All references to >> loads and batteries are being removed from 690. >> >> This is a complete non-issue. >> >> Bill. >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Craig Gerald Buttke >> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 11:44 AM >> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Guarding against live parts 690.7 (D) >> >> >> >> How is everyone handling 690.7 (D) >> >> Circuits over 150 Volts to Ground. In one- and two- family dwellings, live >> parts in photovoltaic source circuits and photovoltaic output circuits over >> 150 volts to ground shall not be accessible to other than qualified persons >> while energized. >> >> >> If you have a commercial (non one or two-family dwelling) are you screening >> your ground mount arrays to keep people from touching live conductors PV >> wires)? >> >> Thanks for your thoughts >> >> -- >> Yours in Solardarity, >> >> Craig Gerald Buttke >> >> M:(715) 630-1227 >> O:(715) 630-6451 >> F:(715) 952-4501 >> >> North Wind Renewable Energy, LLC >> 1626C W Pearl Street >> Stevens Point, WI 54481 >> >> www.northwindre.com >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ >> NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional™ >> State of WI: Master Electrician >> >> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
