Thanks for your reply Mike. - Yes we understand all of this but why make it hard for the AHJ to in the field? A little manufacturer support here would be helpful. If two of us wrenches had the same reaction to the wording might the AJH not also be confused?
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 29, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Harry Mahon <michael.ma...@sma-america.com> > wrote: > > Please see the third and fourth paragraph under ‘Neutral Specifications’ for > the description of operation of the Sunny Boy US -40/-41 family. > > The third paragraph is correct for ALL Sunny Boy models, that is why no model > numbers are called out. This paragraph states what you are looking for: that > the neutral is NOT a current carrying conductor. > > The fourth paragraph calls out the Sunny Boy US-40/-41 specifically as it can > work on 240 or 208 delta services where there is no neutral conductor > available. This is not supported by any other inverter referenced by the > document. And this is why the third paragraph is worded “WHEN connecting two > ungrounded AC conductors and a single grounded conductor to the Sunny Boy..” > – it covers the Sunny Boy US-40/-41 WHEN attaching to a grounded service. > > If there is any confusion by an inspector, SMA will be happy to clarify why > the document is worded this way. > > The “X” is to indicate that the specific inverter will support attachment to > the utility service listed. That could be explicitly called out, I will pass > that feedback on. > > Best regards - > Mike > > > SMA America > Michael Mahon > Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 > Rocklin, CA 95765 > U.S.A. > Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 > www.SMA-America.com > > Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html > > SMA America Solar Academy webinars: > https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html > Choose "English" and "Online" as filters. > > > <image001.jpg><image002.jpg> <image003.jpg> <image004.jpg> <image005.jpg> > <image006.png> > <image007.jpg> > > > This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC > confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or > any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently > delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. > Thank you. > > From: Jeff Clearwater <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:13 PM > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>; scot.a...@solarcentex.com > Cc: Harry Mahon <michael.ma...@sma-america.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral? > > Hi Scot and Mike, > > Yes It is terribly worded - an AHJ could easily read it and come away with > the impression that only the TL and TriPower required the neutral only for > instrumentation and voltage and phase detection - implying the rest used the > neutral for current. > > And your right what do the x's even mean? > > I see the SMA author to be Chris Schwegler authored on July 19th, 2019. > Mike, can you send back to him for a re-write as this won't hold it's water > to AHJs going forward. > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > > scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote on 11/26/19 6:42 AM: > > > Mike, > > Thanks for posting the note, but I find the wording to be less than fully > clear. According to this note, the “The transformer-less series of inverters > named Sunny Boy TL-US-12, Sunny Boy TL-US-22 and Sunny Tripower > 12/15/20/24000TL-US-10 have a neutral connection that is required at > installation for instrumentation, voltage and phase detection only.” > > There is no mention of the -41 inverter also using the neutral for reference > only, even though the note is “applicable to the following inverter types” > and that shows the -41 > > Also, the table has these green x marks but no annotation of what the green x > indicates. > > Can you clarify, please? > > > <image016.png> > > > > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of > Harry Mahon > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:02 AM > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>; Jeff Clearwater > <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral? > > Lloyd – great find! > > I am attaching a updated note that specifically calls out current products > but has less code detail. > > Best regards – > Mike > > SMA America > Michael Mahon > Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > 6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300 > Rocklin, CA 95765 > U.S.A. > Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 > www.SMA-America.com > > Solar Academy: https://solaracademy.sma.de/en.html > > SMA America Solar Academy webinars: > https://solaracademy.sma.de/en/courses.html > Choose "English" and "Online" as filters. > > > <image009.jpg><image010.jpg> <image011.jpg> <image012.jpg> <image013.jpg> > <image014.png> > <image015.jpg> > > > This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC > confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or > any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently > delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. > Thank you. > > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of > Lloyd Hoffstatter > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 10:38 AM > To: Jeff Clearwater <je...@villagepowerdesign.com>; RE-wrenches > <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral? > > Jeff, > > An oldie but attached tech note explains. > May Need to upsize G / N for voltage drop depending on run… > > Best regards, > > Lloyd > > Lloyd Hoffstatter > Sunstruck Consulting > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of > Jeff Clearwater <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:00:37 PM > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral? > > Hey Folks, > > So does anyone have a reference I can show my AJH as to whether there is any > current on the neutral of a single phase 240 VAC SB 7.7-40 inverter? > > 705.95(B) states: > > Neutral Conductor for Instrumentation, Voltage > Detection or Phase Detection. A conductor used solely for > instrumentation, voltage detection, or phase detection and > connected to a single-phase or 3-phase utility-interactive > inverter, shall be permitted to be sized at less than the > ampacity of the other current-carrying conductors and shall > be sized equal to or larger than the equipment grounding > conductor. > > Be great not have to run 3/0 wire to my dedicated PV subpanel with 5 SB7.7s. > At 200 Amps I could use 6 AWG according to 705.95. A huge savings in wire > pull hassle not to mention copper. > > Are there any other practical considerations for those SBs to operate well if > I were to go that low with the neutral? > > Anybody have any field experience with AJHs on this? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > linkedin > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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