James, where is the CT located? If it’s in a panelboard/loadcenter, I understand that they are not “certified” to allow CT’s inside.... so the work-around is to pass the conductors thru a jbox before the panelboard and locate the CTs there.
Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 > On Jun 14, 2020, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote: > > James, > > I might open the ground fault breaker and show him with the ohmmeter that > this is not a solidly grounded system. You are absolutely correct with this > and if he gets tough just let him know you need him to sign off personally > that you had informed him of this exact code reference. Or he may sign off > from the office... > >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 7:21 PM Kent Osterberg <k...@coveoregon.com> wrote: >> James, >> >> Here's the code reference: 2017 690.31(B)(1). Only solidly grounded PV >> system conductors shall be marked in accordance with 200.6 (white or gray). >> >> Kent Osterberg >> Blue Mountain Solar >> >> >>> On 6/13/2020 5:56 PM, James Jarvis wrote: >>> Brian, thank you very much. With your hint of "functional ground" I can >>> clearly see that I am not allowed to have those be white wires. >>> >>> Now time for me to incur the full wrath by daring to question the infinite >>> wisdom of the "highly qualified individual" from the state. >>> >>> (all kinds of fun stuff from this guy. Got another violation for having a >>> donut type current transformer over a line voltage wire. He said that >>> wasn't allowed.) >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> -James Jefferson Jarvis >>> APRS World, LLC >>> +1-507-454-2727 >>> >>> (Sent from my phone. My apologies for spelling errors and brevity.) >>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 17:41 Brian Mehalic <br...@solarenergy.org> wrote: >>>> Change in 2017 to “functional grounded” was to clarify this - it’s not >>>> solid when it is thru a fuse or breaker than can be interrupted either in >>>> the event of a ground-fault or if the breaker is intentionally opened. >>>> 2017 makes it clear that there are very few solidly grounded systems (2 or >>>> less PV source circuits, not touching a building the only case it is >>>> allowed). Pardon any incorrect language as I don’t have my code book, but >>>> I do think the 2017 NEC® makes it very clear, including in the definition >>>> of function grounded, that those conductors cannot be white or gray, >>>> regardless of if the system has a transformer-based or TL inverter or a CC >>>> with integrated or an external GF breaker/fuse. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> > On Jun 13, 2020, at 3:05 PM, greg egan <g...@remotepowerinc.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Jim, Hope all is well with you and yours. on white wires in circuits, >>>> > In 3 ph. circuits you can get killed breaking into a neutral that's >>>> > common to other circuits. One example, working on 277 lighting, you >>>> > throw the breaker or light switch on the one circuit you're working so >>>> > the hot isn't hot anymore. It's standard practice for 3 ph. lighting >>>> > ckts to share a neutral. The white wire in your ckt is wire nutted in >>>> > the j-box up in the ceiling to the common neutrals. Those neutrals are >>>> > hot to ground when their respective ckts are hot and they're carrying >>>> > current. >>>> > >>>> > Just thought it was worth mentioning on this list that there's no hard >>>> > fast rule that all white wires are dead. It depends on the ckt. >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > Greg Egan >>>> > Remote Power Inc. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Message: 11 >>>> > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:17:19 -0500 >>>> > From: James Jarvis<j...@aprsworld.com> >>>> > To: RE-wrenches<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker >>>> > Message-ID: >>>> > <CAFWEuYVMACXebixHtyRVYQ5Xnmaur=ugtv6etu5tnepm00n...@mail.gmail.com> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> > >>>> > Hello Wrenches, >>>> > >>>> > I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by the state >>>> > inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters, some Magnum >>>> > charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controller. It is permitted >>>> > under NEC 2017. >>>> > >>>> > One of the inspectors issues was that my DC- conductors to the array / >>>> > rapid shut down box are black color. He wants them to be white because he >>>> > says they are solidly grounded. I reason that they are only solidly >>>> > grounded when they are solidly grounded. As soon as the ground fault >>>> > protection breaker opens, they are floating at array voltage. I think it >>>> > is >>>> > misleading and unsafe to have a white conductor that can have hundreds of >>>> > volts of potential on it when a breaker trips. >>>> > >>>> > I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the logic that one >>>> > of >>>> > my mentors put into me which is white wires better not have voltage >>>> > potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills electricians" is >>>> > what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me. >>>> > >>>> > Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will be >>>> > changing >>>> > them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code backing. >>>> > >>>> > <rant>Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the roof. I >>>> > wonder if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules and replace >>>> > them with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of >>>> > Minnesota >>>> > only wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They brought in a >>>> > state inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he was a >>>> > "highly qualified individual", but was unable to identify or recognize a >>>> > charge controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as >>>> > inverters.</rant off> >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > -James Jarvis >>>> > APRS World, LLC >>>> > +1-507-454-2727 >>>> > http://www.aprsworld.com/ >>>> > -------------- next part -------------- >>>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> > URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200612/5cd338c8/attachment-0001.html> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> > >>>> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> > >>>> > Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> > >>>> > List-Archive: >>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>> > >>>> > List rules & etiquette: >>>> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> > >>>> > Check out or update participant bios: >>>> > www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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