On Feb 7, 2024, at 10:17 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
We just had a complete failure of a set of four Simpliphi 3.8 KWh
batteries, 48 v. It has completely changed my thoughts on Li+
for off grid. This set lasted 5 years, which is about equal to
bottom of the barrel Golf Cart batteries. The RMA/ Warranty
process has not been smooth. It took almost a week to even get
shipping info from Simpliphi, and then another week to deal with
Hazmat issues, and get Fed Ex to accept used Li+ batteries for
shipment. To their credit, tech support has been knowledgeable,
responsive, and available by phone while on site.
Overall, the system worked fine for 5 years, but then a month
ago, after several days of cloudy weather, the system shut down
due to low voltage. (so far, fairly typical off grid winter
situation) When the customer started the generator and tried to
revive the system, he noticed one of the batteries didn't seem to
be taking a charge, so after consulting with Simpliphi, he
charged each battery separately with a small aux charger. I
checked this charger and it was quite stable at a max of 58 v.
By the time I arrived, all 4 batteries would not accept even
milliamps of charge current. The BMSs had all disconnected the
batteries from the buss, but strangely there was residual voltage
(51vdc) on the terminals. It was not usable however, and crashed
to 18 v upon connection to the inverter with no loads.
Simpliphi is claiming all the BMS units were fried due to a high
voltage event. Its winter, there was no lightning, and we had
both the Outback FM100 and the Schneider XW programmed according
to the Simpliphi integration guides. BTW, Simpliphi has no high
voltage recording, they just don't like the look of how their
electronics fried. Electronics failed = customer's fault. I
think it failed because of the voltage differential between the
low battery voltage and normal charge voltage. If the BMS can't
survive in a typical off grid environment, with proper
programming on industry standard equipment, its not suitable for
off grid applications. Plenty of manus have decided to quit
recommending their equipment for off grid; its a tough gig.
How many times have we all heard the old '/Manu S blaming Manu
X'/ snafu on this list? Simpliphi is saying that the XW can have
transient over voltage events. Well, that should be mentioned in
the integration guide, so we can make an informed decision, and
not use that inverter with their batteries.
So after paying about 5 times what a set of golf cart batteries
would have cost, my client is looking at having to buy a complete
new set. That's approx. *$1.60/ kWh of use from the old set*.
Simpliphi is saying they'll give us a discount on refurbished
units; that is still to be seen. The customer has been running
on an old generator for the past 3 weeks in sub zero weather at
9000 ft. Also, why would we want to reinstall more of these,
without any assurance that this won't happen again in a couple of
years?
In 27 years in the off grid business, I have never dealt with
such a complete and sudden battery failure, or with such a rough
RMA process, or with such a poor warranty from a supposedly top
tier manu. I thought I was providing my customer with the best,
but now good old flooded lead acid batteries are all I'm
considering for up coming installs. It's 2024, but lead acid are
a known quantity, and with proper maintenance are quite robust
and predictable. Even when they fail, there are plenty of
warning signs beforehand. They also can handle below freezing
weather, and I am just not a fan of the whole '/battery heating
do it yourself off Ebay with pet heaters'/ BS either.
*Li+ is just not ready for off grid.* It seems to work fine for
folks that don't rely on it, like GTB.
At least if something like EG4 fails, its price point is not too
far off of lead acid. Simpliphi (now Briggs and Stratton) at
almost $800/ kWh? We were counting on you, we sold these
batteries to many clients under the guise that this was NOT a
/'Fly by night/ made in China/' offering. Based on cycle life,
this should have lasted a lifetime. I hate being wrong. I can
only pray that more of these high price tag batteries don't start
failing on my watch.
I've been holding this rant back for a while, trying to give
Simpliphi a chance to make this right. However, this week I heard
their "diagnosis", and then I saw Jay's timely post? I knew it
was time. <rant off>
Sincerely,
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 2/7/2024 9:19 AM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
One of the things that I’m just now learning is about BMS
failure/warranty/fix/replacement.
Some can be field installed some need to go back to the OEM.
I guess its something else we need to check on.
Jay
On Feb 7, 2024, at 9:06 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Read the warranty. Very limited uses to maintain coverage. Mfg
by an Italian Co that is somewhat condescending toward
customers. But of course East Penn is good to work with. My
understanding is that they do work with the three phase Sol-Ark
inverters.
Brad
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 4:52 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Pals:
Anyone have any experience with this product, good or bad?
https://www.mkbattery.com/products/energy-storage#deka
We have had excellent results using their flooded and valve
regulated lead-acid batteries.
William
Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
CA Lic. 773985
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