Jay If you call MNP Technical Support they should be able to email you a link or get you pdf breakdowns of the trainings with best practice recommendations too
On Wed, Oct 29, 2025, 7:07 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jay > > It is not in the manual, but it is addressed in the training videos. > Hopefully it will get in the manual on the next revision. > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 8:16 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thx william >> >> I looked through the install manual and didn’t see the requirements for >> equal length cables. >> >> Where would I find this? Did I miss it or is it in a white paper or? >> >> Thx >> Jay >> >> On Oct 29, 2025, at 11:27 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Jay >> >> The install principles are for both on and off grid. When on grid you >> have increased issues with current circles, and imbalanced voltage issues >> from bad wiring practices. >> On off grid it is current issues, when the installer goes cheap with >> smaller wire, AU wire and states "the Load is only XX Kw" so I do not need >> a #2AWG wire on the output". >> We know that is never true, and the customer will always increase loads >> or underestimate loads. The inverter also has a large surge capacity, So >> the inverter will starve for Amps when needed on the DC side, and have a >> high resistance on the AC side. >> >> When you follow the recommended wire sizes in the manual, the errors go >> to almost zero, unless you have N to G bonds all over the place. That is >> another issue altogether, that has been talked about. >> >> In the end, AIO inverters are different from what us older guys are used >> to. Before we could get away with all types of shortcuts when the box was >> full of heavy copper and only made AC power. AIO's are really complex, and >> the little things in the install matter. The New RULES are making it even >> harder ESS, PCS, ECT... More rules, more code, more issues. >> >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 1:04 PM jay via RE-wrenches < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> HI William >>> >>> This is for both on and off grid correct? >>> jay >>> >>> On Oct 29, 2025, at 10:34 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dave >>> >>> The AC wires need to be the same size and try to have the same length. >>> This is important because the inverter when stacked "shares" the power so >>> you want to try to prevent any imbalance in voltage and resistance >>> issues, or circle issues. >>> >>> In older stacked systems you have a master and a slave and when the >>> power demand increases then the slave would take the excess. On AIO's the >>> power is shared equally all the time (this is a good thing as you don't get >>> the flicker as the slave picks up). It is important that the install takes >>> into account the different way the power is used and delivered. Have a >>> clean install, with the correct sized conductors as specified by the >>> manufacturer, and try to keep the wire run short and equal when connecting >>> the inverter AC runs together. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 9:41 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> William this is really good information, thanks for sharing the >>>> technical perspective. >>>> >>>> I have two sites with two of these inverters and both of them are >>>> exhibiting very similar behavior. On Friday, I was out at the other one to >>>> wrap up a few things. While I was out there I verified some of the things >>>> that Midnite tech support suggested like making sure that the AC wires to >>>> each inverter's grid in and cables are the same length and also from the >>>> battery bus bar to each inverter are the same length. This was actually a >>>> bit surprising to me, considering with lead acid it is more important to >>>> have the battery cables from the bus bar to the batteries be the exact same >>>> length and the cables to the inverters did not matter as much. >>>> >>>> Based on what we were talking about last week, I removed the N-G bond >>>> in the disconnect for the solar, but I have not yet gone looking for other >>>> N-G connections in the way that Jason suggested. I have not gotten a CA-DC >>>> link overvoltage error, but I have still seen some of the symptoms. It is >>>> not as bad as the other site, but what I notice on the monitoring is that >>>> in the late afternoon/early evening one inverter shows an unreasonable >>>> amount of solar (with power going into the grid and into the battery), >>>> while the other inverter shows low solar (with a ton of power coming out of >>>> the battery going to the load and the grid), and the battery SOC drops very >>>> quickly down to the discharge end SOC (on grid) setting of 85%. >>>> Jason and William, do you know whether any faulty wiring with N-G >>>> connected in loads on the non-backed up side will affect the system the >>>> same way? Or is it mostly just important to check for any neutrals >>>> connected to ground on the backed up loads side? >>>> >>>> Jason, as to why a supply side connection - I was under the impression >>>> that a Power Control System just effectively limits the amount of power >>>> that can be sold to the grid. But on a standard 200A service, that limits >>>> you to about 7.7kw of sell back. I would not want to limit the system that >>>> much for a roughly 20kw system, even if more than the 7.7kw can go to >>>> powering loads and battery charging. In the Midnite monitoring, it is >>>> pretty easy to limit the grid sell back with the "maximum feed in grid >>>> power" in the Power Control settings. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 8:51 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> All >>>>> >>>>> Most modern all-in-one (AIO) inverters are designed around a non-isolated >>>>> high-voltage DC bus. This design is what allows manufacturers to advertise >>>>> higher output numbers — for example, “15–18 kW” — while the inverter may >>>>> only deliver 12 kW during nighttime operation when PV isn’t contributing >>>>> (it is also cheaper to build). Without the shared non-isolated DC link, >>>>> these power-boosted daytime ratings wouldn’t be possible. >>>>> >>>>> A DC-bus overvoltage fault almost always points to one of two issues: >>>>> >>>>> 1. >>>>> >>>>> Improper system design >>>>> 2. >>>>> >>>>> Wiring and installation mistakes >>>>> >>>>> Off-Grid Example >>>>> >>>>> A common DIY mistake is pairing a large solar array (because glass is >>>>> cheap) with a relatively small battery (not as cheap). >>>>> When the battery is full and a large load suddenly turns off, the >>>>> excess energy has nowhere to go. The inverter throttles back, but the >>>>> stored energy can still push the DC-bus voltage up rapidly. If the >>>>> inverter >>>>> didn’t protect itself, the capacitors would be at risk — so it shuts down >>>>> with an overvoltage error. This is also common when using a large >>>>> retrofitted AC coupled array. >>>>> Grid-Tie Example >>>>> >>>>> In grid-connected systems, DC-bus overvoltage is typically caused by >>>>> wiring >>>>> mistakes, some common examples are: >>>>> >>>>> Multiple neutral-to-ground bonds >>>>> >>>>> Reversed hot/neutral at outlets >>>>> >>>>> A single inverter is usually more forgiving. However, stacked >>>>> inverters must share phase, neutral, and grounding relationships >>>>> precisely. Any mis-wiring can create circulating currents. That >>>>> circulating energy is not accounted for in the inverter’s internal power >>>>> calculations, so the DC-bus voltage rises unexpectedly — and the inverter >>>>> shuts down for protection. >>>>> >>>>> A DC Link Overvoltage error is usually not an inverter defect — it’s a >>>>> system design or system wiring problem 99% of the time. Ensuring proper >>>>> neutral/ground bonding, correct polarity, adequate battery capacity, and >>>>> proper commissioning is critical to reliable AIO operation. >>>>> >>>>> This behavior is not unique to the MN AIO — all AIO inverters using a >>>>> non-isolated DC-bus topology share the same fundamental protection >>>>> limitations. >>>>> >>>>> Inverters are getting more complex to deal with the new rules and >>>>> utility requirements, this causes reliability issues as we move (or >>>>> pushed) >>>>> to full integration with the grid. Because you know we all want the >>>>> utility to have full control over our systems! >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 9:51 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I had an issue with a EG4 inverter and tech support was an insistent >>>>>> that there was multiple ground neutral bonds in the system. Fully off >>>>>> grid >>>>>> system with no generator. >>>>>> It wasn’t the issue but it seems like these inverters are sensitive >>>>>> to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the inverter internally bonded, not that I’m aware of or what I’ve >>>>>> measured. >>>>>> And so I can’t figure out what it’s measuring between N/G to have a >>>>>> potential issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe someone can explain? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jay >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 24, 2025, at 6:49 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks all for your thoughts here. It seems that the general >>>>>> consensus so far is that the N-G should be bonded in the solar main >>>>>> disconnecting means when doing a supply side connection (even if it is >>>>>> not >>>>>> technically a separate service). When talking with Midnite Power, we made >>>>>> it very clear that we were talking about a N-G bond in the inverter >>>>>> combiner / solar main disconnect, and not the backed up loads panel. And >>>>>> being that NY is still on 2017 code (only going to 2020 next year), with >>>>>> the ambiguity in the code I am probably okay to undo the N-G connection >>>>>> in >>>>>> the main solar disconnect. >>>>>> >>>>>> In this case specifically, we are backing up only a small subset of >>>>>> loads in the house. The reason for the two inverters is because there is >>>>>> about 24kw of solar. There is also a manual transfer switch to normally >>>>>> be >>>>>> able to power the loads off the inverters, but to be able to switch to >>>>>> powering the loads off the main panel in case of service needed on the >>>>>> inverters. The neutrals in this system are all connected together, and I >>>>>> am >>>>>> not sure if that could cause issues. It is probably difficult to explain >>>>>> all the details in words, so I am copying part of the three line diagram >>>>>> here. The second picture is the conductor and conduit schedule. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom, I get it that the error sounds like it is on the DC side based >>>>>> on the words, but when I talked to Midnite about it they were pretty >>>>>> clear >>>>>> about it being due to multiple N-G bonds and they did not mention that it >>>>>> could have anything to do with the DC side. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason, that is a good idea as well to check the loads that got moved >>>>>> over to see if there are any other inadvertent N-G bonds on the premises. >>>>>> This also similar to what Midnite suggested, which was to lift the N-G >>>>>> bond >>>>>> in the main panel and then see if they are still bonded somewhere else. >>>>>> It >>>>>> seems like it can be a slow process to track that down with power cut to >>>>>> the house, but that might be what I have to try if removing the N-G bond >>>>>> in >>>>>> the solar main disconnect does not help. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, my main questions to anyone who has an opinion here are two fold: >>>>>> 1. Do you bond the N-G in general in the main solar disconnect for a >>>>>> supply side connection? >>>>>> 2. Specifically with the Midnite AIO inverters, has anyone else had >>>>>> issues with this "CA-DC link Overvoltage error" due to having a second >>>>>> N-G >>>>>> bond in the house? (one in the main service panel, and one in the solar >>>>>> main disconnect if it is a supply side connection). Or have you seen this >>>>>> error and found that it was caused by something else? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 5:25 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree. It is not a separate service. It is a "tap" of the existing >>>>>>> service (I use that term loosely here). The additional service >>>>>>> disconnect >>>>>>> for the supply side interconnection should have L1, L2, and N >>>>>>> connected ahead of the premises main disconnect with no EGC. There >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> be a N-G bonding jumper in the PV service disconnect. Then there should >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> no N-G bonds downstream of both the premises main disconnect and the PV >>>>>>> service disconnect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Basically, it's the same as two main disconnects running from a >>>>>>> meter enclosure. Each of the service disconnects has a N-G bond >>>>>>> required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some AHJs (the crazy ones) require an EGC between the enclosure >>>>>>> where the supply side connection is made and the PV service disconnect. >>>>>>> This creates a parallel fault path, and should not be allowed, in my >>>>>>> humble >>>>>>> opinion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now it sounds like you might be doing a partial home backup. The >>>>>>> issue there is that sometimes the loads or enclosures you moved over the >>>>>>> backup load panel have inadvertent N-G bonds. Sometimes it's as simple >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> someone who got creative and used a ground as a neutral in a switch >>>>>>> box. I >>>>>>> say simple, but that can be hard to track down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When Midnite said to remove it from the inverter distribution >>>>>>> panel, they were probably talking about the protected loads panel. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think more information is needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 11:03 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My interpretation, and the way it was explained to me by both Ryan >>>>>>>> Mayfield and Kyle Bolger(several years ago at this point, popular >>>>>>>> opinion >>>>>>>> may have changed since). Is that it is not a seperate service. >>>>>>>> It is however required to have a ground-neutral bond( though in my >>>>>>>> opinion pointless and redundant as there is a bond in the enclosure >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> the tap is made). If it gives you any issue, ensure as close to equal >>>>>>>> potential to the grounding electrode as possible(and make sure your >>>>>>>> neutral >>>>>>>> is appropriately sized). I personally don't see the point but it is an >>>>>>>> NEC >>>>>>>> requirement >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025, 6:08 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For years I have understood that when doing a supply side >>>>>>>>> connection, you are supposed to bond the neutral to ground in the >>>>>>>>> solar >>>>>>>>> service disconnect. I have a Midnite AIO system with two inverters >>>>>>>>> (set up >>>>>>>>> as a supply side connection) that recently was getting a CA-DC link >>>>>>>>> Overvoltage error. When talking to Midnite, their first response was >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> make sure that there was only one N-G bond in the whole system. When I >>>>>>>>> mentioned that the solar is a separate service and thus there is a >>>>>>>>> N-G bond >>>>>>>>> in both the main panel and the inverter distribution panel, they said >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> remove it from the inverter distribution panel. I want to make the >>>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>>> work right, but I also am hesitant to do something against how I have >>>>>>>>> understood the NEC to be for a long time. I am curious if you all have >>>>>>>>> thoughts on this or run into a similar situation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/> >>>>>>>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>>>>>>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>>>>>>>> p: he | him | his >>>>>>>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>| >>>>>>>>> Ithaca, >>>>>>>>> NY 14850 >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>>>>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/> >>>>>>>>> c: >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>(607) >>>>>>>>> 270-0370 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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